der Berliner

Great read!

Maybe, on another day with less turbulences, I can relate how I started as a Bluenose roundabout 1983 ... from behind the Iron Curtain in East Germany's capital Berlin, glued to the BBC World Service's German radio folk on Saturday evenings, then the English original in the afternoon, then BBC 2, BBC 5, Five Live (the latter three all via BFBS) ... and nowadays the internet.

I was just wondering what Timothy would do to get some attention back. Maybe they thought that that was that and all would celebrate the next champions in Scotland and hail the magnificent effort of The Lurgan Bigot and his team of many players! But shock-horror, no-one speaks about them! So first Lawwell spouts some rubbish about Celtic not needing Rangers to survive, now TLB gives away another salvo that would only put a dead rat's IQ to shame.

Every time you think they have reached rock bottom, this lot manages to exceed themselves and find a totally new dimension!

If there is a 10 million deficit in running costs then I am afraid you are wrong 54. The administrators have already said that we need to have more coming in than going out.

McCoist, Durrant and McDowell AFAIK all work on different levels of coaching with the players. It's not that we employ 3 housekeepers doing the very same job. I would expect that the squad might be thinned to 25 players, that is including the reserves, who essentially hardly have any competition.

While it is hard to believe in this day and age, you do wonder whether some of the players asked to go may stay on nonetheless and play for no fee or possibly a fee funded from the outside (if that is possible). Methinks the SFA players union may be willing to pay for them too - ere they will "flood" the freebie market?

They are publicly available documents (by law) anybody can get them from Companies House, though you won't get these now as they were stricken however the documents of the actual striking are available.

 

They are 100% genuine.

May I inquire where you get them from? Have you been there and taken a copy and scanned it for us ... or has this copy indeed come from someoe else? Just out of interest. Timothy tries to tango us from day one of this and I'm not exactly willing to take anything on the next on face value.

A BBC Scotland spokesman said: "We can confirm we have received a writ from Mr Whyte. We stand by our journalism, all of the allegations made, and will defend any action vigorously."

They taken that straight from our remarks about the incoming "big tax case", it seems. Cheeky!

On a sidenote, I am somewhat astonished to time and again read (on here) a rerun of the rumours, hearsay, and assumptions about e.g. the Ticketus money (and its actual value) being "a loan" and used for this or that ... as if it had indeed be fact, not just assumption. Half of the rumours have by now been rubbished (by Octcopus themselves, as far as I understand it - though it caused another bout of assumptions in the relevant thread) and of the rest the fact will be severed from fiction soon enough. It would do well if we wait for the administrator's* reports and than either start sharpeneing the axes for Whyte or stop some of the flak fired at his direction.

*When I see that some credible poster on here already starts to undermine their name, well well ...

May I just put in that these documents do not exactly look genuine to me. Not that I know how these papers would or do look like, but the above sheets look very average for such important business matters.

On a sidenote, you do wonder how someone gets hold of them, i.e. stuff that would be deemed confidential. Have heads rolled over this?

You would assume that any future owner/director takes note of the behaviour of some people right now, be they Celtic staff or reporters or politicians. And then makes sure that this lot does not set a foot into Ibrox in the forseeable future.

FF says: 'don't read this forum because it's full of shite'.

 

By 'this' I mean FF.

No no. You simply have to be careful with a lot posted on there. Since there are what, 500 to 1200 active people on there at any given time, you can get a lot of (quick) info. Some is good, some is not, and some is being made. I've been there since a decade or so and you grew some sort of rubbish resistance.

The poster who had this info I had in the first posting of this thread has been their for ages and not exactly revealed himself as an infiltrator. It could well be that someone made him look like a fool. That said, many on there and here have been made look like fools every now and then with some information delivered in good faith, only to be contradicted with facts from the official site. Not least these last few days.

Thanks again for BlueMazza's updates.

I think we do well to wait for the administrators' statements from now on, instead of jumping to conclusions based on media rumour-mongering.

I cannot say I have a good feeling about the administration, but a better feeling than same time last week, or, indeed, Monday. Add the that the public support we received today.

Spotted Roddy Forsyth, one of the lasses might be Sheelagh McLaren of (whatever)

... oh yes, we have/had a deal with STV (Sky will be furious ... or making money with ads).

The good thing is that you at long last get real facts from these people, whether they are good or bad, they are at least facts, not speculation and hearsay.

And can be watched here.

Forget the rumours, let's hear the facts.

Okay ... best wait for any sort of official confirmation here before commenting.

Heck, now I start some second hand info thread ... I'll be away castigating myself for a while now!

Then again ...

Liam McLeod @liammcleod79

The administrators for #Rangers say no players or Ibrox staff will be sacked today.They say it'll be next week before anyone's told

Martyn McLaughlin @MartynMcL

Duff & Phelps also refute rumours that players have been asked to play without being paid #Rangers

... following a meeting with the adminstrators.

Needs confirmation though.

I do believe the administrator's words more than that of a journalist. Any journalist that is. One late reply from the chap quoted above:

Question

Whoever buys the club will need to pay the valuation set buy the administrators and agreed by the creditors, I am off the knowledge the big tax case is pointless to purse due to the fact we are in administration but possibly wrong on that, will try to get more on the big tax case

Reply

Lengthy conversation there, the big tax case can still be claimed for by HMRC but it can be 5 mil or 100 mil makes no difference, HMRC will still only get what is left after a sale , also and this is important, creditors must submit their claim to the administrators so that the monies can be divided so HMRC would need to say we are owed 9 mil in unpaid tax and x mil for the ebt's, if someone buys the club we should be ok. One more thing I have been told that if the administrator has said that administration is a short term situation and that liquidation is a remote possibility ( which was said today ) then it sounds like a deal or buyer is more than likely sorted .............I have complete faith in this information.

I just C&P this. No insight whatsoever.

Despite what I just wrote above ... from FF

A bit of reading but worth it.

 

My sister works in amdinistration and insolvency in London. She says.....

 

The administartor were called MCR until a recent merger.

They will ahve been working on this for some weeks already.

They are a very reputable company.

They will be working out Rangers value as we speak,from the price on ibrox to Murray park and right down to office furniture.

Once a valuation has been reached it is presented to the creditors who vote as whether they believe it is a true valuation or not. Whyte cant vote as he is the secured creditor but can chhose to relinquish being the secured creditor if he wants to vote.

Once a valuation is agreed a buyer will be sought asap.

 

When a business goes into administration a conduct report is done on the directors of the business to look for any wrong doing(if Whyte has been guilty of this he will be found out) the directors of the business can be looked at up to three years before submitting to administartion.

A meeting must be arranged within 8 weeks of administartion with all the creditors and the finding of this will be made public.

 

Administraters and legals get paid first then secured creditors then the rest,if these creditors cant be paid in full the monies left get split accordingly pro rata to what is owed.

 

Now the interesting bit.......

The big tax case is the question, Rangers in administration can't pay that so it is pointless to pursue RANGERS for it but if Directors are shown to be negligent then they can be pursued for it and if they have no means to pay it they can be made bankrupt.....so maybe this is why Murray and the old board didnt want administration and this is why Murray is not happy that we are now in it.

 

Time will tell what happens but make no bones about it if Whyte has tried to shaft Rangers ti will come out...

Question:

How confident is she that HMRC wont pursue because we are in administration is that not if we are in liquidation or ultimately bankrupt they will let us off?

Reply:

she says it is pointless to pursue as if a business is in administration then they wont have any funds to pay and that is where the three years previous of directorship comes in..

I think the administrators have said that liquidation is only a remote possibility. They are now the "show in town" and speak to all relevant parties. We should, for the time being, wait and see how they do their job and listen to what they have to say. The time for speculation has essentially past.

I think it is best - for the time being - to stop reading most of the press rumours and assumptions and stick to what these people have to say.

A question here ... who owns the 9m VAT/PAYE whatever to HMRC? Rangers? Whyte? The Rangers Group? Would it make any difference for the administrators?

major creditor, secured creditor, unsecured creditor ... and sometimes they have a say and sometimes they don't. So far, the tribunal's result has not been published, so the "big case claim" remains a hypothetical one (whether or not HMRC wants to go through all tiers here), there is the small issue (with much of it ringfenced in our accounts anyway) and the VAT/PAYE/you name it one reported here and there. Who owns the latter to HMRC though? Whyte? Rangers? And if it is the former, could HMRC use it against Rangers' administration plans ... or just against Whyte / TRG?

BTW, a petition is asking the Prime Minister to help, as he did with Portsmouth.

rbr ... these people you mentioned above, where they businessmen?

Think Europe bit the dust yesterday.

Well, who knows. I for one do not know the exact "deadlines" for Europe next season, 31st of March is AFAIK a SFA deadline?

Please don't try and turn yet another discussion into a tit-for-tat dB.

I don't. All I hear from forlanssister is accusations of Whyte being responsible for putting is into administration et al. Which is utterly wrong. Sure he caused it earlier because of the apparent non-payment of VAT, PAYE and whatnot, so admins was instigated this week. But this HMRC big case was coming up and we know HMRCs intent to go through all tiers and ruin us, so admin was coming all along. And I simply ask all the Whyte blamers whether they have a better option than what Whyte did? No, because there is not. HMRC would have come after us, whether under the "helm" of AJ, Paul Murray, Craig Whyte or someone else. And they would have ruined the club one way or another. But still the blamers go on and on about this being solely Whyte's doing and failure. I do not want to protect him, for I have no reason to do this whatsoever, but some folk should really take their glasses off here. Or present a solution that would have fended off HMRCs 50odd million claims.