the gunslinger

green hasn't put in money for junes shortfall. we were told he would but in reality the shortfall is being covered out of club funds and transfer money due.

That my friend is easily the most naive take on this whole mess I've heard, what happens to their money if between now and the final payment we go tits up again, it's gone that's the risk they are taking and believe me it takes baws to throw money at us when you've no guarantee its getting thrown back.

now that is naive. they have security in ibrox and mp. that's what happens if it goes tits up.

Can't believe the crap people are getting about being naive about business. You can be in business and make money without shafting everyone.

 

You could easily put up £8.5m of your own money, get Rangers back on track and sell for a good profit - even if you ONLY made 50% over 5 year that would be a pretty decent return in a recession. How is that spunking your money away?

 

However, you don't even need to make a direct profit from football to make a return for owning a famous club. The fact you own it is good for the rest of your business.

 

Celtic are supposedly worth £52m, how are we not worth more than £2 plus a £8.5m loan to be paid back with interest?

 

There are a lot of people who seem to think we're worth fuck all and then like to ram that down other people's throats.

and that no one would have a problem with.

greens scammed us all with the help of d&p. its disgusting.

I see no reason why Green won't do as he says. He's come up with all the cash he was due to put in.

 

D & P have said he has time to put in the rest. It would be bad business on his part to deposit that cash now and lose the interest for a month.

 

As for TBK, their laughable two bit offer wouldn't even have covered the admins fee, and we don't even know where that small amount was coming from. They were happy to assign £10m of our money to paying off Ticketus, which they assured us was a good deal.

there bid was many things but it certainly was for more than 2 quid

So there's just £2 in the CVA pot then I'm confused.

2 quid of their money.

yeah utterly horrendous from the record.

I get the feeling you sometimes forget that beggers can't be choosers and we are in such dire needs we can't be fussy. As GA says he is not doing anything illegal like Whyte did. We're not just talking about a couple of grand here, we're talking about business men who are putting in millions and millions of pounds so of course they are going to want their cash back. That is just plain common sense. Bottom line again is that this is the best deal for the creditors and they come first.

 

Ultimately we should be happy we might come out of this with a cva having paid back what 9p in the pound according to another thread to the people we owe Millions to. So if we have to pay back the 8.5 million long term and run the club to it's means to do so I don't see what the big issue is.

 

People don't seem to be happy unless these people are just spunking their cash away.

they are putting in 2 quid.

as I say a return is one thing getting us for free is a whole other thing.

the sfa don't have the money to fight celtc in court but do for us.

Regan says they must introduce rules that stand up in court then loses out to an illegal censure of rangers.

its laughable.

to make it worse they're now pretending they will give us a more severe punishment.

as I say greens not getting any of my cash and I know a couple that feel the same though most just want the season book forms out.

he's fleecing us and I won't be lining his pockets.

Wilson's admitted to being a rangers fan as a kid.

plenty of people saying green is struggling for cash. I know people he's been giving the hard sell to very recently.

the daily record d&p pet paper are saying it. leggo. Frankie.

d&p are all but saying it.

This is my problem with these prospective owners and i include TBK in that too. No one has any interest in putting up their own money. Are we such a risk?

Brian Kennedy was puting up his own money and tbk to a lesser extent.

so was bill miller in fairness it seemed.

We are not funding the buyout has he asked us for 8.5mill up front, the investors are funding the buyout and want a return + interest the same way a bank does, you do remember those days when banks still lended money to people.

 

I think we all need to get a grip and realise this is how the world turns like it or not.

then they want us to invest in a share issue that goes to them not the club. then they want to sell their shares at a profit.

some profit is fine. even a good one.

this ones abhorrent.

Right let's nail this on the head once and for all he's not buying us, he's the front for a group of investors who want a return for their investment it's how the world turns.

 

No businessman uses his own money he goes to the bank and investors. Do you think Paul Murray was using his own money? Of course not.

 

If Murray had went to a bank who would actually have gave him money to buy the club or his Knights do you think they wouldn't have wanted a return for that money. Who was going to pay that? That's right us of course the fans by buying season tickets,so are we still buying the club from him.

 

You think HMRC would've had a hand in drafting the CVA if they hadn't seen the colour of his money.

 

I agree with a lot you say GS but you need to realise no one was going to just plough millions into us without wanting it back at some point. You might not like it but it's how the business world revolves, the quicker we get a handle on this the sounder we will all sleep at night.

getting a return for your money because you buy a club for 8 million and build it up is fine.

getting a return because you buy it for two quid and charge the fans interest while they pay the rest off for you is not.

this is nothing like tbk plan.

I also want to know where the money's coming from. is it rediculous to be worried that greens a front for whyte given we know the bids going to cost 2 quid all in?

we were told investors wanted to wait on the cva to reveal themselves.

the blue knights perhaps should have done better to beat this bid.

however its easier to bid the fans money than your own and tbk needed cash to keep us competative.

that said their offer of 5 million plus extras and fees and running costs paid seperate is still higher than this.

so perhaps no amount of cash would have got them in the door.

horribly written piece of pap but the anti sfa thrust is fine by me.

sums up my feelings pretty well this article.

as I said yesterday I fail to see how this bid is better than the blue knights one. if they agree then it could get messy.

regardless of that d&p also have an equal duty to protect the future of rangers and I really don't think they have done that.

green has told us a pack of lies and if he wants my money he better have some good honest answers next time he opens his mouth.

The Rangers support is exactly where Charles Green wants them to be: too worried that the club might be liquidated to challenge his intentions.

Twelve months on from Craig Whyte buying his majority shareholding for £1 and leaving the club in debt to his Wavetower group, Green and his consortium are about to buy Rangers for £2, and leave the club in debt to Sevco, their holding company. The similarities should be enough to raise indignation among fans, but instead there is only uncertainty.

The mood is one of fatigue. Supporters have become drained by the endless setbacks and Green's pursuit of a Company Voluntary Arrangement had offered a rare moment of hope. Yet that should have been countered by the contents of the CVA Proposal published yesterday. Green's £8.5m offer is a loan, to be paid back by or before 2020, with interest thought to be 8%. So Rangers will come out of administration in debt, even although two weeks ago Green pledged that the club would never be in debt again.

Inconsistencies have become the hallmark of Green and administrators Duff & Phelps. When the deal was first announced, the Englishman spoke of a consortium of 20 investors, only to admit later that "five or six" were involved. He claims to have raised £20m, but spent last weekend frantically contacting Scottish businessmen asking for investment. The CVA proposal going out was due to trigger the first seven-figure instalment of his purchase price, believed to be £2.7m, but as late as Friday he had only raised £1m.

According to the CVA proposal, Green's loan will be drawn down in mid-July, so what about the club's running costs? Duff & Phelps had demanded that all bidders provide funds to meet those from 1 June onwards over and above their offer price. All of them did, except Green. A £3.6m Administration Trading Shortfall is included in the proposal and is deducted from Green's offer price. So the creditors are effectively paying the club's running costs.

With huge fees generated by Duff & Phelps of £3m, then a further £1.8m in legal fees, the costs of the administration are almost as much as the creditors are receiving from the Green consortium's loan. The administrators' fees are unchallenged, even although there is an argument that Duff & Phelps have destroyed value during the process. The proposal also includes £2m in Player Transfer Fees (factored), even although Rangers are due £3.7m in transfer monies. The £1.7m has been written off; to cover more running costs?

The creditors also have justifiable cause to question why Duff & Phelps opted for Green's bid when the considered opinion of several financial experts Herald Sport consulted is the CVA proposal does not represent better value than some other offers. Assets which should have fallen to the creditors are falling to Green's group, including any recoveries made from payments claimed back from Phil Betts and Regenesis of around £500,000.

Each of these factors alone should have caused alarm among supporters, but together they are reasons for fans to bring more scrutiny to bear on the men who are about to take control of their club. Green's consortium is even gaining a fixed security over the main assets, Ibrox and Murray Park, in the same way as Whyte, yet supporters are wary of the consequences of challenging him.

"We're pleased that the CVA process has commenced," says Andy Kerr, president of the Rangers Supporters Assembly. "But I'm not comfortable with [the £8.5m being a loan]. It's the alternative to a bad lot, in terms of finding a way to start to move forward. The exact terms in which that loan is serviceable is something we'll need to consider."

Early in the administration, Duff & Phelps declared they would not sell to "another Craig Whyte". Green's background apart, the administrators admit they do not even know the identities of all the members of the consortium who will end up owning the club. They have also signed a deal that allows Green to buy the assets in a newco scenario, even although an open bidding process at that stage would likely raise more than £5.5m.

When Bill Miller was named preferred bidder, Rangers fans were fully engaged with investigating the American and questioning his means and motives. The same is not happening with Green and his consortium. This is due to several factors: the season is over, so fans aren't congregating and talking together in numbers; the three main fans' groups were all backers of the Blue Knights, and so fear that coming out against Green will only cause friction with other fans; and the realisation that liquidation is ever closer because the money runs out on June 1.

Yet of the four final bidders, two are still ready to move immediately should Green's offer collapse, and even as late as last week were preparing for that eventuality because of doubts about his funding. All three of the other bidders have decided to keep a low profile since losing out in the final auction, but they have not withdrawn their interest. "I'm still apprehensive that there are a lot of large hurdles to overcome," cautioned Kerr.

Rangers fans need to judge Green on his pledges and his actions, not on the basis that it seems as if he is the last man standing.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...rying.17736993

for being quick and it has in relative terms its been hellishly expensive.

something else that might be challenged.

It gave the creditors more money on the table.

 

The No Mark Knights are gone and not coming back is that the real reason you keep up with the doom & gloom?

 

In court with who?

he's buying us for 2 quid. I promise you if he was putting up the 8.5 million and we weren't paying him back I would be fine with it.

is it really to much to ask for someone to buy us with their own money not ours?

hmrc in court v d&p can you imagine if they accept this only to get nothing because he can't raise the cash.

the bids laughable and I have no idea why d&p accepted it. I can see this ending up in court.

just over 2 weeks to come up with 7.5 million and if he can't he gets it for less but we get liquidated.

Why 'two' punishments for the one charge of bringing the game into disrepute? or am i missing something here?

 

£160k seams it should see the end of it imo.

weren't those for other crimes?

I was hoping to tap you for a loan of £20m odd for ahem "working capital"!

seems a reasonable sum for day to day expenses I'll raise an invoice now.