Owain

So we DEFINATELY won't loose our history. Is this a FACT or speculation. Anyone know for sure?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/championship/9227473/Football-League-to-curb-debts-to-take-stress-off-chairmen.html

He's a greedy man. I doubt that will be enough.

If the clubs assets are worth over £100M, and HMRC & Ticetus are unsecured, why would he settle for such a low figure?

I'm not saying at all that we deserve it. I'm saying they are the rules and we (our club) broke them, hence we (and our club) were punished. The point I was trying to get to was that the rules need looking at. That should be our focus. Div 3 would at best produce change over a long period of time as well as damaging the club massively. A more co-operative stance with the SFA would IMO produce change quicker.

The idea of Div 3 worries the hell out of me. I remember the 80's, it was bad. Div 3 would be worse. And what if we didn't get up after the first season? How many would come back the season after? Ibrox with only 1000 supporters in it would be a very cold & lonely place. All this conspiracy talk worries me too. Our club broke the rules, we get punished no matter who is in charge. We should be focusing on ways to stop this from ever happening again. Rather than isolate ourselves we might be better off uniting with supporters from other clubs & ensuring more openess in the way football teams are managed. The likes of SDM, Whyte and the constant persuit of self gratification & profit are our ememies here. Not the SFA.

You've got more chance of being savaged by a dead sheep.

So we're banned from signing senior players for a year. How long is it going to be before we HAVE the money to sign anyone? And Whyte has been banned from involvement in Scottish football. So....what happens to his shares now? Maybe there are positives here.

"I may walk away with nothing" We have more chance of him being savaged by a dead sheep than walking away empty handed.

I do understand it from HMRC's point of view a little. It's the tax money that pays for hospitals and looks after kids & the elderly. If people don't pay tax, we don't have those facilities. But what I don't quite get is the way all this has happened. It's fans and people that work for the club that are suffering. The one's that have caused this are getting away with it, even making a profit from it. If there is any truth in the article then it's going to be the small businessman and workers that are going to suffer from this legislation. Again, the one's that cause the problems are not going to be penalised, meaning something similar could happen again. HMRC have a job to do, it's an important one and it is something that is fundamental to the social structure of our society. But with the powers they have surely they could find a more efficient way of dealing with the problem. Whyte decided to stop paying the tax. As far as I can tell, he made no effort to try. HMRC have the resources, the creativity and the intelligence to come up with a far more targeted solution that would reduce the sufferring amongst the innocent masses in this. Instead we see Whyte getting away with it, and dragging the name of Rangers through the gutter. There is just no justice. It's beond belief.

Not sure if I posted it in the right place, or indeed if it is relevant to many but I found this.... April 02, 2012 HMRC Launching Rangers Rule Are we about to see the UK tax authorities introduce a â??Rangers Ruleâ??? The question is prompted by a note from UHY Hacker Young, the accountancy firm, relating how struggling UK businesses will be required to pay tax upfront or face criminal charges, says. From April 6 2012 HMRC will be able to ask employers to pay a financial security where it thinks there is serious risk that the business wonâ??t pay over their PAYE tax deductions or National Insurance contributions (NICs) on time. Failure to provide a security to HMRC will constitute a criminal offence, potentially leading to fines of up to £5,000 (as a small businessman, that sends a bit of a shiver down my own spine; in my personal experience, if HMRC has power, it will exercise that power and use it to grind â??ordinaryâ?? people into the dirt, singing loudly and lustily as it does so; â??professionalâ?? football clubs, by some extraordinary perversity of thinking, tend to receive the preferential treatment that they seem to view as their divine right). UHY Hacker Young says that the new rules will pile pressure on businesses already in difficulty as they will be forced to raise more funds to be able to provide the security required by HMRC (see Glasgow Rangers FC for further details). Roy Maugham, tax partner at UHY Hacker Young, comments: â??Requiring employers to pay a portion of the income tax and NIC upfront will be substantial financial burden and could lead to serious cash flow difficulties for some businesses.â? â??Businesses will most likely be forced to increase their working capital in order to comply. Whether this is through capital raising or by trying to obtain a bank loan, this will be difficult to achieve in the current economic conditions.â? â??The more likely HMRC doubts a business will be able to pay PAYE and NIC on time, the greater the deposit it will ask. The reality is that HMRC will only compound the financial problems that businesses already have.â? UHY Hacker Young says that although HMRC has pledged to help businesses in difficulty by providing them with additional time to pay their taxes, it is becoming much stricter with the conditions under which it provides this facility (i.e. the Business Payment Support Service). Comments Maugham: â??As Time to Pay becomes less accessible, many businesses will be tempted to use the tax collected via payroll to buffer their cash flow temporarily.â? â??Most businesses that withhold tax and NIC are merely trying to survive and keep employing people.â? â??The new rules mean that employers might have to choose between criminal sanctions and insolvency, or even laying people off, which seems terribly harsh.â? Adds Maugham: â??Although the new rules are meant to target businesses that deliberately defraud the taxman, the weak economy means that a huge number of â??innocentâ?? businesses that are simply struggling to survive could be caught in the net.â? http://www.brianbollen.com/bbb_brian_bollens_blog/2012/04/hmrc-launching-rangers-rule.html#tpe-action-posted-6a00d83420cafe53ef0168e9924b5b970c It will be harsh on any of us that have small businesses. Whyte has much to answer for.

I thought all the sending off's were a bit harsh today. Didn't do the game justice. But it was glorious how we played them off the park. If the players had shown the same spirit & determination at other times throughout the season we'd still be on top, 10 point penalty or not. Lennon is Lennon and always will be Lennon.

One minute I think we've had it. The next minute I read something that implies we'll be ok. My heid is spinning and I'm lost here. Perhaps this should be a thread question, I don't know but...... If it looks like we can write off the ticketus debt, why can't we do the exact same thing with HMRC? Sorry if I sound a wee bit thick here but I'm not a business/financial guy.

We don't owe them money, we owe them season tickets so they weren't going to be a preferred creditor. The guidence couldn't be given to the admin because they wanted to tear the deal up. You can't get guidence for something you can't do. This is not good.

Me too, I feel out of what's there he's the one to bring us out of this mess. I don't expect he'll hang around once things are sorted but he seems like he has his head screwed on right and his ego seems pretty much under control. Unless of course a Sheik shows up at the weekend

"After having our fingers burned by a Whyte Knight, we no longer wish to be pawns in any game." And how can we stop that from happening? Money and/or ego's mean more to those with power than the club.

Until recently I have took almost no-notice of the corpoate side of the club or it's fiscal complexities. But if I remember rightly, SDM was quite keen to sell to CW even when PM was proposing a bid last year. CW's reputation was fairly well known, especially thanks to a few timothies around that time. The idea that SDM was oblivious to this just doesn't cut it with me. One thing I feel sure of is that CW isn't daft. He'll come away from this mess with a nice lump sum. SDM won't loose his knighthood. They're not going to suffer in all of this.

Sounds promising. I still have a problem trusting big finacial people though. The only sustainable option is surely for the club to be owned by us. That is what we need to work towards.

I am far from a businessman and have very little knowledge of the workings of such people so please excuse me if I am in error here. But at £20 or so million, Ticketus seem to be our largest creditor. If we are to have any chance of coming out of this with a CVA do we not need them on board? Surely to include them in the negotiations for the bid would be in our (by "our" I mean the BK) interests? If they are left feeling that their monies are secured at a much higher level than say a 10% of debt CVA, then that leaves us with HMRC as an isolated creditor that would have to endure a very difficult political situation if they were to force a winding up petition on our club. It does seem to me that the Admin. are trying their best here to present a company that can very well survive, given a compromise between investment and a little sympathy from HMRC. After all, the HMRC want their money. A CVA will be no use to them but the potential to recoup monies owed in a reasonable time will attract at least some interest. Personally I don't feel comfortable with the BK bid, mainly because of those involved and their histories plus the shambolic way they have handled the PR (amatuerish to say the least), but I can see why they have chosen to include Ticketus. It is the one thing that makes me think that the BK could maybe something verging on a realistic bid.

Hi, I'm Owain. I live in Wales, and have a 2g dongle. Life is slow here. Joined as it seems one of the more quality forums, after reading a post by Frankie (Death By A Thousand Cuts).

I live in Wales. For all purposes it suffers the same news feed as England. Our current situation is just an aside here. I've not met anyone who gives two hoots yet. It breaks my heart. Whatever happenes in the future, we have to make sure that we have transparency. This cannot be allowed to happen again. Love the article Frankie. Thank-you.