Thinker

We need to keep politics and football separate. It provides too much ammo for those who wish to harm us.

Div1 is clearly the best and quickest route back to the top, but we won't get a say in it. We all have to commit to supporting the team whatever happens. Personally, I no longer feel bothered by the fact that we're a newco, or by whatever else hits the club because it is being inflicted on us by our small-minded, petty, hypocritical rivals in Scottish football. It no longer has anything to do with our alleged wrong-doings. We have to set this straight. I would never, in the past, have accepted the notion of buying out another club to save ours, but I've reached the point were I would welcome the opportunity. If we are demoted to the third (or worse: completely voted out of the SFL) I would have no qualms about buying the next higher placed club which goes into administration, then rebranding and relocating them. A St. Mirren fan at work told me that the result of their poll showed that 95% of them would still object to Rangers getting SPL membership even if it meant their club going into administration. They clearly haven't thought it through. A club in admin will be bought by the highest bidder, regardless of the fans wishes, and there are few groups who could outbid us. And I wouldn't give a sh!t what other fans would say about our history. I no longer value their opinions.

I take it to mean that we have to get the application in by Friday, but that they won't consider it for approval until we're in a league. At least we'll soon find out Green's plans.

Because they can.

I agree that it's a farce - that's my point. And, yes, any mention of sporting integrity from the other SPL teams is completely hypocritical. Unfortunately, this farce is also the reality of our situation.

Well, the bottom line is that none of the other clubs is obliged to give any reason for not voting us back into the SPL, and they're absolutely allowed to do it out of self interest. The vote isn't a disciplinary matter so I wish people would stop refering to the result as a punishment. Even if we were completely, publically exonerated of all financial wrong-doing this afternoon, all the other clubs need to say to justify themselves is, "We wouldn't vote any other team that went under straight back into the SPL and we're not going to make an exception for you just because you generate a lot of wealth." In fact, they don't even need to say that because they're in no way obliged to justify their vote. They can just do it because they think it's better for them, or even just out of plain spite. Will the SFL clubs take a different view of things? I'm trying to be positive about it, but there are no guarantees.

It seems the fans of the 10 wee teams aren't concerned about having their player budgets slashed. The impression I get from them is that as long as the whole league is equally reduced in quality then they won't have lost out. "Cutting cloth accordingly" is the phrase you'll hear if you speak to them. It actually makes a certain amount of sense - they've never grown to expect silky football, and since they don't have European aspirations, the loss of quality relative to other nations' club sides isn't an issue to them. Celtic fans, on the other hand, think they're going to be in the Champions' League group stages every year. Obviously I'm biased, but I genuinely believe they're in for a rude awakening. It only takes a couple of bad qualifying draws for that money to dry up, plus they'll have 11 greedy wee munchkins out-voting them on ideas to "level up the playing field".

The somewhat convoluted argument, if I understand it correctly, is that if Rangers had been liquidated during the season, before Alan B'stard began keeping the cash flowing by holding out on the taxman, we'd have been bottom and relegated. It's not as simple as that though since, if we'd gone into admin before the tax business, HMRC might have accepted a CVA. Or maybe they'd still have killed us for the BTC money. Feck knows.

I think the other SPL clubs might see a brief surge this year as fans show support for our ejection, but it'll peter out when they're reminded of the quality of football they'll have to endure - and still without a hope of winning.

Agreed. Jealousy of success is the root - the other stuff simply provides them with ammo and a self-justification that they can feel good about. The sad fact is, people in this country these days spend more time resenting others' success and ambition than trying to achieve things for themselves. If you watched the England game in the pub last night you'll know what I mean. I've got no love for the English national side (and none for the press who so often build them up beyond reason ) but going to the pub in the hope of seeing someone else lose is not healthy.

I thought admission to the SFL is done by a vote by the existing clubs. I seriously hope I'm wrong - I wouldn't trust them not to screw us over too.

Even that's not guaranteed.

This vote has never had anything to do with sporting integrity - it's simply about clubs keeping on the right side of their fans. The day we lost the CVA was the day we lost our place in the SPL. The fans of the other clubs are quite prepared to see damage inflicted on their own team in order to shaft us. I'm convinced that even if it was announced tomorrow that the EBTs were all in order we'd still lose out. They have been presented with an opportunity to screw us and they're going to follow it through no matter what. And I'm not confident the fans of SFL clubs will differ much in their attitude should they be asked to vote.

I suppose the point Allan was making is that the bile flows in both directions. If your argument is that "Rangers are the baddies" then maybe some growing up has to be done by everyone.

Going by the previous "logic" used, we'll probably all have to go to jail.

If the SPL and SFL merge, it's possible for them to have their cake and eat it regardless of what division we're in. One sponsorship deal for the whole of Scottish football, a TV deal that will screen games form all divisions (including ours) but spread the dosh about - we can be outvoted at every turn and fleeced. In my eyes, Division 1 is clearly the way to go. We can only get there by being voted back into the SPL and then subsequently punished for the events of last season. If the other clubs make us responsible for the past then they are effectively officially recognising that we re the same Rangers we've always been. I believe this to be extremely important longterm. The 140 year history is incredibly valuable - and any arguments about the validity of our claim to that history (however bogus they might be) damage the value of the club.

I honestly think Div1 is a good option. Even if we go to Div3, I fear we might not hear the last of the need for "punishment". Remember, the SPL vote is not actually an official mechanism for the other clubs to punish us - it's not a tribunal, there's no evidence being presented. I have a horrible feeling that the SFA will attempt to apply official sanctions on us regardless of which league we're in. If we are hit with the official sanction of relegation to Div1 due to the sins of previous owners, then by logical extension no-one will be able to officially deny us our history.

To be fair, Falkirk have been well and truly dumped on in the past so I can see why Ritchie's not inclined to do anyone any favours. But us going to Div3 would only delay the scenario he's outlining here.

The fact that CW chose them is grounds enough for suspicion.

It's beyond belief that a club would vote to get rid of income that they need. I guess they all must be pretty confident that they can do without it. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong - time will tell.

True, but dropping to Div3 is an excessive "punishment". In the Italian scandal, Juventus were only demoted 1 division after appeal - and that was for actual cheating. You're correct though, using the re-admission vote as a way to "stealth" punish us for financial issues which have not yet been fully investigated shows a complete lack of sporting integrity. At the end of the day though - it's their vote. If they haven't got the balls to plunge the knife right in we should take advantage of that. IMO.

There seem to be a lot of people who are dead against Div1 - am I missing something? I'm prepared for us to be playing in Div3 next season - you can tell the way the vote is going to go at the moment. But dropping to Div1 is clearly more managable, and we'll be able to come back from it sooner. Obviously the motivation behind this fudge scheme is to lessen the financial impact on the other SPL teams, but as long as they don't try to sneak any other penalties in, it's a win for us too. Isn't it?

It's tough to separate and apportion legal wrong-doing/responsibility from moral wrong-doing/responsibility in this. But here's my attempt: Legally (according to the principles of corporate law) Rangers as a whole are responsible for the debt, but by the same principles liquidation resolves that. Not very morally satisfying, but that's the law. Morally (in my eyes at least) Craig Whyte is responsible for the debt and I wish their was some way he could be punished. But just because the law doesn't satisfactorily dish out blame and punishment, doesn't mean Rangers Football Club have to. The EBT situation may turn out to be different if (as King said the other day) Rangers received a sporting advantage due to (allbeit unwitting) illegal activity. But the club gained no advantage from Whyte's actions. He was contractually obliged to invest £21m(?) but instead diverted tax money to do it and that resulted in our liquidation. I'm pretty sure that was his aim from the word go - he deliberately harmed the club for his own gain. I don't feel morally indebted to anyone over that.

Time for a bit of Chumbawamba...

Is it just me or is that a reasonably sane compromise? I guess the suspended transfer embargo would be to give us time to stabilise our squad? Or, maybe no signings if we're promoted first attempt?