3909 04

Strong words when the patsy ex-chairman is gone for good, Kenny.

Any more views for us? Any thoughts on the megalomaniac media junkie ex-owner who happily took the club to verge of extinction by employing incompetent yes-men, while sacrificing the club's fans to gain a knighthood before selling the club to the man you're deriding and scuttling off to cultivate his vineyard in the south of France?

No, I didn't think so.

It's nice to see that Kennedy is a dirty Hibee rugby fan again, FF had me in tears with laughter last night you just couldn't make it up.

I can well imagine! It's times like this I miss the old place!!

Care to share some of the more memorable anti-BK outbursts with us? I could do with a laugh!!

Bainer's FF ban will be permanent this time, methinks.

You did great, my man.

Very well done.

I would have Paul Murray before Bill Miller anytime of the day.

 

He might not have enough money, but I would trust him before an American who has no feeling for Rangers.

The last bid I wanted to succed was Miller's and I said so openly. Murray seems genuine in his desire to see the club improve.

But TBK's approach has been so cack-handed throughout the process, I'm not surprised they've been passed over. They've hardly made a single sure-footed step and their choice of backers (Ticketus & the RST) convinced pretty much no-one.

I'm hugely wary of Miller - I instinctively distrust anyone who terms himself a "turnaround specialist" - but I'll reserve judgment for now.

Just wondering with all supporters not wanting the club liquidated if they would be willing to pump money into the PLC to pay the creditors off and save the PLC? Or would they prefer to put their money behind the newco and football part of the club?

Isn't that precisely what the much-heralded "moneyed Rangers men" in The Blue Knights should have done if, as claimed, they're equally opposed to a newco?

I can't help feeling that TBK bid has been a bit of a sham. Ten rich men who collectively can't raise the price of a round of drinks and instead rely on a ticket agency and the supporters for their funding.

Very disappointing.

and you have a problem with ending sectarianism?

Not at all. I'm hopeful that sectarianism will one day be completely eradicated from the Scottish landscape. Sadly, as there's no sign of an end to apartheid schooling or of Celtic FC being closed down, I guess we're stuck with it for now.

Rangers, on the other hand, were never at any stage in their history a sectarian club, whatever SDM may have told Sandy Jardine.

Rather than reply to individual posts, here are a few points to clarify my views:

- This thread was begun as a criticism of the RST's approach to the RFFF. That's why I came on to post my views of the tactics employed by the RST and in particular their two mouthpieces, FF and MD.

- No-one, certainly not I, has suggested MD has been offered a seat on the board of RFC. It's interesting that someone has seen fit to deny a suggestion which no-one has made.

- I do, however, believe MD sees enhanced opportunities for himself should TBK get the gig and I don't believe mini-Murray has discouraged that viewpoint. MD's near-hysterical backing of TBK bid and his furious excoriation of those who don't share his views backs up this belief.

- If this board is to remain neutral to the views expressed by individuals on other boards, I suggest we'll very soon run out of topics to discuss.

- I hold extremely strong views on all matters Rangers, as you'll see. Expressing them on here does not amount to "antagonising others", nor does defending myself against such allegations amount to "trolling". Criticise my posts by all means but please use the correct terminology when you do so.

Company man Sandy still can't find the courage to criticise David Murray, the man who ruined Rangers then handed the club to Craig Whyte.

I guess it's just too difficult to speak ill of the man who ended 80 years of sectarianism at the club, eh Sandy?

Sickening to behold a freeloader who took a large salary while the club was going bust still refusing to blame the man who made him rich.

I've got to be perfectly honest dB, I think it's pretty poor form and incredibly uncool to try and make a new member of the forum feel unwelcome just because you don't agree with their opinion.

Thank you, Zappa. I believe I've antagonised no-one, libelled no-one and I certainly haven't trolled, a much misused and misunderstood term.

As you can probably tell, I was recently chased from FF for providing heartfelt opinions, on the RST and several other matters. I just don't want to use a site where I'm reluctant to log on because I can't face having yet another argument. I really hope that's not what will happen on here.

Anyway, thanks for the welcome!

Trollng again. Antagonizing again. ...

You're calling me a troll? I consider that libellous.

"Ignore list is your friend", as they say on your big pal's site.

Maybe so, Zappa, but within 5 posts on Gersnet 3909 04 manages to antagonize people more than two dozen other posters have done since I joined up.

 

Edit: Make that 6. Where's the igonre option?

I'd say I've antagonised precisely no-one, present company excepted.

I'm sure MD will be glad of your unswerving support, though. Looks like he could do with some backing right now.

There's a certain clutch on here that is strictly anti-FF, and I find the statement above quite astonishing, if not even bordering to libel. You're sure your not having an agenda here?

If you believe that sentence is even close to being libellous, you must have led a very sheltered life. If you want to see genuinely libellous sentiments in print, try reading the views of pro-TBK/pro-RST posters on FF when the perceived wisdom on that floundering site (Paul Murray = God incarnate) is challenged by anyone who dares to speak out.

My agenda is simple: I seek an empowered, impartial, open supporters group whose representatives demonstrably have the best interests of the club at heart. Not a self-congratulatory closed shop where any dissenters from a narrow, but constantly shifting, party line are ridiculed and bullied into silence.

Is that any clearer for you?

Come to mention it, you seem very defensive of both FF and the RST. Why would that be?

How would that work?

From the day we went into administration, Paul Murray has drip-fed info to Dingwall as a mechanism of getting info to the support, promoting TBK and decrying other bids. MD has praised Murray personally throughout the bid process in a manner hitherto unseen on FF. Remember the Ticketus deal wherein they were to be paid £1m p/a for 10 years? Dingwall breathlessly presented it on FF as, "A brilliant deal struck by Paul Murray". Now Dingwall and the poodles are encouraging fans to spam Bill Miller, presumably to put him off bidding. The fools are gambling with the very future of the club in a last, desperate attempt to see their chosen bidder get the nod.

And we're supposed to believe MD is orchestrating all this effort simply because he feels Paul Murray's bid is best for the club? Aye, right you are.

If MD is not on a promise of a paid role at Ibrox once mini-Murray gets the keys, be it in a supporter liaison or a PR capacity, I'm Gerry Adams.

FF has been shocking today, MD should never be allowed near Ibrox again. FF today has been one long propaganda trip.

 

I'm not saying that Miller would be great for Rangers but the way MD has been going on today confirms to me the supporters groups are finished in there present form.

Dingwall delights in causing/perpetuating splits in the support. For years, we've watched him bully people on FF with the backing of his willing zombie army, while bleating about being threatened. His conduct since the club went into administration, though, has been something else altogether. There is no doubt in my mind that his motivation for backing TBK so vehemently is financial.

And to correct an earlier poster; no-one has a personal axe to grind with MD or the RST. It's just that some of us recognise and are willing to speak out when club representatives are acting in their own interest, rather than seeking the club's well-being.

Very simplistic view on the activities of the RST, and I for one would like to get the "contribution" part explained. After all, the RST are only a rather small

group and what makes them look big is their prominence in the media. They have the club at their heart and chose to support people who do likewise. No fault in that.

 

On the other hand, the baulk of the support also looked on and did essentially nothing ... only after been organized by the supporters groups did some get their act together.

 

Finished? Far from it! After any sort of takeover these people should get into serious contact with the new owner and make their ideas felt, ere another Whyte-scenario of cloak & dagger stuff behind closed door can occur. For one thing is for sure, if the supporters groups are gone, Miller and Co., much like Whyte and Co. or TBK and Co. can do as they please with Rangers FC.

We all know what the RST set out to do and we can see what role they should play. They have succeeded to an extent in getting messages across via a traditionally hostile Scottish media. Credit to them for that.

But the fact is for years the RST has been a participant in the most disastrous period in the club's history. They spent far too long cosying up to David Murray, even when it was clear he wanted out and had nothing left to offer. They kept channels of communication going with the club's enemies, such as the appalling Spiers to whom they gave interviews, for far too long. They were massively wise after the event with Whyte, whom they initially welcomed. And latterly they've embarrassed themselves hugely by acting as lovestruck cheerleaders for TBK, led by ex-Rangers director Paul Murray. They have no clear media strategy; Radio Clyde should be boycotted unless they ask Dingwall for an interview, in which case the boycott is ditched. The quality of their written press statements, while containing laudable sentiments, is uniformly dreadful. Attendance at their AGMs would embarrass a meeting of the Flat Earth Society but their chairman totally denies this indicates any diminishing of their stature. In short, they're a mess and an irrelevance.

I agree that a Rangers Supporters Trust group should play a role in post-apocalypse Rangers but not if "these people" are their representatives. The plain fact is the RST will never amount to anything more than a factional splinter group while Mark Dingwall remains their most prominent member/spokesman. He's neither trusted nor respected by the vast bulk of the Rangers support and he represents division, not unity.

If the RST are serious about being players in the new Rangers, their entire structure needs to be adressed and their top team needs to be replaced.

I don't think it's worth playing the blame game, folks.

 

The RST are first to admit they're not perfect but I don't think they contributed to the failure of the TBK bid.

It's not really a question of blame. I just don't believe the vehemently pro-TBK/pro-Murray line adopted by an influential Rangers site and the gleeful elimination of any dissenting voices raised helped TBK bid one bit; quite the reverse.

I would also question whether the disproportionately prominent role in TBK bid played by that web-site's owner helped the bid; again, I would suggest not.

Not so much blame, just stating my personal observations.

I said at the outset the problem with the RST's involvement was their most prominent member's close association with the unfortunate episodes in the RST's past. I couldn't see how this particular individual, with his unfortunate knack of making enemies among his fellow-supporters, could ever hope to unite fans behind him. As it happened, the bigger problem turned out to be the RST's association with one romantically attractive but ultimately unrealistic bid. The RST slavishly backed not just TBK but specifically Paul Murray, fawningly so. The RST rubbished every other bidder. This served to make Bears suspicious of TBK. So the poster is right; if Miller gets the gig, the RST have effectively achieved nothing.

On the subject of the RST, where was their public condemnation of racist tweets aimed at Kyle Bartley? They were quick enough to give an interview to 5 Live when another club's manager was alegedly sent parcel bombs last year. Why so shy, guys?

Oh and hi everyone, I'm 3909 04.