reaper

There's a big difference between being humble and being humiliated.

What exactly do I or any Rangers supporter or the club have to or need to be humble about ?

Dear me so many innocents and turn the other cheek merchants abroad at such an early hour.

You are the reason Tom English writes his nonsense. His twitter feed was awash with similar "go back to Ireland" and "back to where you come from" comments which he duly retweets and exposes to his thousands of followers.

 

If you think that is defending the club and it's fans then please leave it to the big boys who can articulate their views without dragging us through the gutter. <pyoorloyalistsmiley>

English writes vitriol because he is a republican Rangers hating tosser who appeals to the quislings and Chamberlain types, quiet dignity and your articulate pish don't seem to get us very far just ask "humble Mather", where is Charlie when we need him that's right hunted by the pacifists and pc mob.

Humble Mather can take a flyer, I nor any Rangers supporter has anything to be humble about.

Interim chief executive Craig Mather said: "We have always been active and we continue on that road and be humble. It's been interesting but we've got there. I'm very happy."

Comments like this play right into the hands of people like English and Spiers. Poor.

What's poor is any backing or agreement to the slimeballs comments and anti Rangers agenda, you carry on some of us are definetly not for turning the other cheek, britney why the fuck would anyone worry about that shit stirring jump the dyke liewell licker, apparently you do.

How the fuck anyone can possibly think we were well served by any of the authorities is beyond me, the reprobate english should have his arse kicked back to were he came from.

What is actually stated is probably fact...it's how its presented - especially where HMRC is concerned - that is the problem.

 

RFC's Issue with the tax man is portrayed as being the most horendous crime known to man (along with the other crimes). Hearts issues with the same body, over the same issues is portrayed as being a valiant effort from Hearts to meet their obligations.

 

The real truth is that firstly HMRC allowed RFC to run up a £13m debt before they acted. Hearts have had several Winding-up orders thrown at them due to non-payment of monies. They reached agreement with HMRC over the re-payments, then get hit with ANOTHER bill for outstanding monies, which they failed to pay in completion. They have also failed to pay players/staff of several occasions, in some cases with delays of 2-3 months (Remember Ian Black talking about starting Painting & decorating again to cover his own costs).

 

What has been Hearts punishment to date - a couple of transfer embargo's.....WHEN THE TRANSFER WINDOW IS CLOSED!!!!

 

Hearts Administrator is quoted in the paper today saying that any fine handed down by the SFA could finally sink the club once & for all.....who wants to bet that no fine will be dished out???

What is fact is that criminal investigations are still ongoing which may result in the club and fans being the victims of criminal actions, if this is found to be the case will the authorities under whatever guise they now call themselves have anywhere near enough to pay damages.

Will the club ever fight back or are we Scottish football's permanent whipping boys, do our board have no shame as to their very public lack of backbone, perhaps they are to busy breaking bread with and praising our enemies.

By TOM ENGLISH

Published on 27/06/2013 00:00

SINCE Hearts went into administration there has been an uprising in parts of the country where Rangers fans sit with long memories of their own horrors from last summer.

In the eyes of some of these Bears, the narrative is strangely different this time around. Barely a day goes by without some â?? or many â?? getting in touch via social networking to accuse the media and the SFA of double standards in the twin administrations. The bludgeon for Rangers a year ago but sympathy for Hearts now. What is the difference, they ask. Why hammer Rangers and then go easy on their counterparts in Edinburgh when they both fell foul of the same thing?

The aggrieved Rangers fans remember the findings of the SFAâ??s judicial panel. The headlines were a whopping fine of £160,000 for the club plus a 12-month transfer embargo (later over-ruled by Lord Glennie, but still in force now on account of the agreement that saw Rangersâ?? entry into the Third Division). There is lingering resentment over all of that among Rangers folk plus a feeling that the treatment doled out to them last year should be repeated now that Hearts are in administration, too. Time and again Rangers people ask: â??What is the difference between us then and Hearts now?â? Truth be told, the difference, as it stands, is stark.

Some remember the judicial panelâ??s bottom line in 2012 but forget the many steps the panel took to get there. It is surprising the number of Rangers fans who have it in their heads that their club was fined £160,000 and banned from signing players for a year simply because they were in administration. That is not the case. Far from it. The overall fine constituted a number of different fines for different offences that Hearts have not been charged with. Maybe the landscape will change a little once the SFA pull up the bonnet and have a look at what was gone in recent times at Tynecastle, but it is an almighty stretch to demand the same punishment for Hearts now as was handed down to Rangers then. That is what some Rangers people want. They claim that there is one rule for their put-upon club and another for Hearts. Yes, there is. Because their stories are different.

Consider what Rangers were found guilty of by the judicial panel. Apart from being guilty of an insolvency event, they were found guilty of not disclosing the fact that Craig Whyte had been disqualified from being a company director. They were found guilty of failing to comply with the rules of the PLUS Stock Exchange by not disclosing Whyteâ??s disqualification. They were found guilty of failing to lodge annual accounts by 31 December, 2001 as required by the Companies Act 2006. They were found guilty of failing to hold an annual general meeting by 1 January, 2012 as required by the Companies Act 2012. They were found guilty of non-payment of PAYE, VAT and National Insurance contributions in excess of £13 million. They were found guilty of failing to pay money due to Dunfermline as per the rules of the Scottish Premier League. They were found guilty of non-payment of money due to Dundee United for a Scottish Cup tie as per the rules of the SFA. They were guilty of non-payment of money to the SFA in relation to the rules of competition in the Scottish Cup.

When you bracket all of these breaches together you get to £160,000. Of that number, only £50,000 relates to the insolvency act. Most of the rest of it comes under the banner of bringing the game into disrepute. How many of these offences are Hearts guilty of and what is their rightful punishment? Thatâ??s what must be mulled over in the coming weeks.

Did they have a director who failed to declare that heâ??d been struck off? No. Did they publish their accounts? Yes. Did they have an annual general meeting? Yes. Did they â?? or do they â?? owe monies to other clubs? As far as we are aware, no. For sure, they need to be punished for the things they are guilty of, but youâ??re not comparing apples with apples when you lump Heartsâ?? offences in with the myriad breaches perpetrated by Whyteâ??s Rangers. And letâ??s not fall for the easy cop-out that Whyte was the only one to blame for the fall of Rangers. The jJudicial panel report collared many of the directors at Ibrox and held them accountable in varying degrees for not doing enough â?? or anything at all â?? to raise the alarm with the authorities, despite being suspicious of what Whyte was up to.

Importantly, the judicial panelâ??s findings were endorsed by Lord Carloway and Lord Glennie. Glennie had a major problem with the legality of the transfer embargo imposed on Rangers, which he ditched, but in no sense did he disagree with the rest of the report, nor the grave tone of it. Remember, the panel found that only match-fixing could constitute a more serious offence than the collective violations of the Whyte era.

Hearts failed to comply with HMRC and that is to their shame. But the contravention is of a different order to the brazen defiance displayed by Whyte, is it not? Hearts had come to an arrangement to pay up previous arrears with the taxman â?? a state of affairs that HMRC appeared to be content with. They had fallen foul again lately with a bill of about £100,000 dropping on the doorstep at Tynecastle. Around half of that has already been paid, with huge credit due to the supporters (and credit also to the Rangers fans who worked tirelessly to try to pay off the entire football debt of their club). Weâ??ll have to wait for BDO to crunch the numbers to find out precisely how much Hearts will end up shafting HMRC for but itâ??s not going to be in the same ball-park â?? or the same country â?? as the £13m-plus that Whyteâ??s regime at Rangers stiffed them for.

All of this has to be factored into the reckoning. And it is the reason why Heartsâ?? administration is being reported differently. Itâ??s not so much sympathy as an understanding of two distinct and sad stories.

You somewhat misinterprete my posts. All I am dampening is the gloom-and-doom-ering that goes on without any up-to-date-hard facts. I clearly see that people are cautious, as am I. And we have been hit severely by some monetary mismanagement in the past and thus have every reason to be cautious. Yet, we IMHO should not be overly negative either. We have yet to see how our current CEO and financial chaps manage the business ... and when it comes to our manager's ability, the jury is still out. That said, despite what they won over the years, each and every manager of our club these last 20odd years got my fair share of criticism about tactics, signing, line-ups et al. Then again, you will hardly get seasons like those that happened at e.g. Dortmund or Bayern these last three years all the time either. IMHO, this upcoming season will tell us whether McCoist has it to be one of Rangers' better managers (sic!), despite being in the lower leagues. He now has essentially assembled his squad, now he needs to make them gel and play football that befits our club.

I think your posts are pretty clear that you think we must wait and see for everything under the sun, as far as McCoist goes his record is an open book I don't think he will ever be a Rangers manager legend or not, let's hope I am wrong we don't have much if any time to waste.

Ahem, we've signed quite a few talented players who will improve our squad for at least a couple of years. We've retained those talents that will improve our squad for years to come. We had a bare-bones squad to be content with these last 15 months, and quite a few have thanked those who came to the lowest tier of the Scottish game. Quite easily, we might have ended up with a youth side that might (sic!) have made it to the title as well ... though the way the whole (sic!) team performed since January was abysmal. Do you think that any investor, would-be-buyer et al would come to a club in such a state. Do you expect our supporters flock back to Ibrox to see another 12 months of that dire fare we were treated too since January? A team that will hardly be able to challenge for the three cups on offer again? Perhaps you are correct in assuming that you can assemble a team to win the SPFL 3 for a few hundred thousand pounds. It would sure tick the finance chaps' boxes. I am reasonably sure that it would not tick many others though. Whether Rangers FC can sustain the current squad remains to be seen.

Your optimism is beyond reproach as to our financial awareness and our managers abilities, I only hope the punt and hunt which we will be subjected to does not dampen your enthusiasm.

I would assume that the results for the first year of "newco" will be out in the "near future" and tell us what exactly the score is. And the next accounts will tell us how these accounts have changed due to the signings and goings this summer. Thus far, people speculate a lot and while we can't do much about it anyway (just saying), why trying to paint a bleak picture out of conjecture and hearsay? The only thing you do with this is spreading negativity without much substance and that can sure be no good thing?

 

I'm not saying we should stick our heads in the sand and believe everything is rosy. But we might start to accept (unless proven otherwise) that those in power of our finances right now (I would assume Mather & Stockbridge) are acutely aware what has happened to our club and that spending over our limits is not the way to move forward.

Quite simply spending multi millions in the lower reaches is incompetence, that will be found out soon enough when more and greater money has to be spent on a team for the premier division, our youth policy sacrificed by a cheque book manager.

Yes, that is all comparing apples to coconuts et al.

 

I could cynically ask the same question that was asked before: should we sell and sack all of our players, get the QOS squad, pay them 500k a season and romp to the title with them? What has been done above is looking at the scenario from just one angle and apparently deliberately ignoring what is "required" and "demanded" at Rangers FC ... by US. Citing Monaco or QoS or Blackpool's wage structure, or e.g. Porto's stunning sell-on balance, Barca's talent school is fine, but that is ignroing the reality of modern day Scotland and the reality of what Rangers can deliver right now (sic!) and what we demand of Rangers. And unless I am mistaken, neither of these grand SPL teams look financially healthy, despite their "low" wage bills. And apart from that, how about throwing the Scum in, who ran on ruinous wage bills for these last three seasons too, without any CL etc. money?

 

IMHO, the strategy done right now is pretty obvious. Build a team for the next two years that not only delivers titles and hopefully some cups, but also a consistent level of attractive (even by our fickle opinions) football. Somesuch will enable the club to become a major brand and product again, a place where people want to spend their money on, despite us being in a lower league. Get the phenomena that is "Rangers Rising" to the next level by making people (e.g. all over the planet) aware of this, try to attach them to our cause.

 

We'll have to wait and see what the wage bill will be in the half-year accounts to gain a good opinion on whether we can sustain our current course, what the Puma and Blackthorne deals bring to the club et al. While caution is always a good thing, the way it is done right now on here is again oozing negativity more than anything.

One thing any business that has been in the position we have been in should not be doing is waiting and seeing, a clear and definitive fiscal policy should have been in place and adhered to.

I am always reminded of the age old adage in these circumstances that it is a poor workman who blames his tools, a saying that applies to all businesses and walks of life.

3 year old story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/7575088/Wanted-man-issues-legal-threat-to-Interpol.html

Can you add the average attendance figures for these clubs?

 

We have 32 players in the squad? How many youngsters are inlcuded here? How many of those are on 200 to 500 pounds a week? If you read some people's comments we should do it like we do it with those women teams that are u17s or less, i.e. their parents pay that they can play for Rangers?

What has attendances got to do with anything, Monaco are spending more money than Fort Knox on averages of 5000 crowds, what I can tell you is that the club salary figures quoted are premier league clubs while we are/were in case you missed it 4th tier, also QOS romped the 2nd on a budget of £350,000, around half of our managers stipend not including add-ons.

Deary me, must be what Ally meant by spending money to keep him and his cohorts in a job.

Motherwell - £3.5m

· Inverness - £2m

· Dundee Utd - £3.8m

· Rangers - £7.5m

You'll be sure to show me where I've put Ally 'above the club' won't you?

 

I took issue with your claim that Ally has damaged the club, he hasn't, he's done the exact opposite. It's a ridiculous thing for a Rangers supporter to say.

 

To describe him as a 'crap manager' is unfair, there is no evidence to back that up at all. He's not a great manager either, he might become one in time, he might not, none of us can say for sure. That you can't divine what his signing strategy is isn't McCoist's fault, but it's fairly clear to anyone who bothers to look at it. I've no problem with criticism of McCoist, there are quite a few areas to do that. But to say he's damaging the club is hyperbolic bollocks.

Any manager that has been pumped out of every cup competition or euro competition with the riches of the Ibrox set-up even before the shit hit is due being classed as a crap manager, still with your head stuck up your arse you won't have noticed any of that.

There is a long, long list of people who have 'damaged' Rangers and Ally McCoist's name doesn't appear anywhere near it. To say Ally 'saved Ibrox' is overstating it but to downplay his role in keeping the identity of the club alive, acting as a focus and rallying point for the supporters and also his help and influence with the staff who run the club who were getting no information from anyone in control is very unfair.

 

His 'strategy' seems fairly clear to me. He'd like a first choice 11 made up of players with experience the bulk of who have played in Scotland and know and understand the football played here. Add to that a couple of 'foreign' players who will add something a little different and then bolster the squad with young inexperienced players who will get their chance during the season. Some will flourish and some won't. He's doing this without actually being able to sign anyone under contract elsewhere which does severely limit his options. People can criticise this strategy if they want but it doesn't strike me as particularly daft or unreasonable in the circumstances.

 

McCoist has done as much as arguably anyone in the history of the club to warrant the title 'legend'. In his two years as a club manager he's finished second whilst in administration and won the league he was playing in by a mile. I've no idea if he can become a great manager, neither do you, but to describe him as damaging the club is a fuckin disgrace, you should be ashamed of yourself.

The only people who should be ashamed are the likes of you who puts anyone above the club legend or not, Ally is a crap manager what part of that do you fail to grasp.

McCoist should be hunted before he does any further damage, Ibrox has become an eventide home and a place for those down on their uppers, £700k and no viable signing policy or strategy , we will be hearing the usual excuses of he's a novice manager he saved Ibrox when all was lost, strangely there are those who swallow such claptrap.

Great players don't always make managers even half decent managers, the list of failures is a long one.

... true as that may be, a couple of Vanguard Bears challenged the BBC folk long enough to make them apologize openly with regard to the new club mantra. Sometimes it just takes a few dedicated souls to get results. If no-one buys a ticket, no-one will win the lottery. I for one would ask, but I'm no shareholder in the Rangers FCI.

So once identities are known what is the end product apart from showing how powerless the fans are ?

What difference would asking for a copy do, the fans are to divided to do anything about anything and the board knows it.

No one is surprised by the largesse at Ibrox anymore and more disturbingly the rewards bestowed for and upon mediocrity, the times have definitely changed in many ways and not for the better.

Your belief that hard nosed corporate investors/fund managers would fall for any old kettle of fish that CG proposed is touching.

It's been brought about by a complete lack of transparency from the current regime. I agree we shouldn't be using any significant amount of the IPO money to cover operating costs.

 

We were supposed to have money in the bank and be working within our means pre IPO according to several public boasts by Green. So why then did it appear when Green and Stockbridge were pressed on the issue towards the end of the season that more than half of the IPO money was missing? Where did it go? Are we back to the losing £1m a month sham? because even that doesn't begin to cover it.

 

You said before that you think Ally has a 'brass neck and a cheek' to be taking that wage from the club right now. My point is that he's only doing his job. It's not his job to figure out or to question whether the club can afford the amount he's paid personally or player budget he's given. Just like we blamed SDM instead of DA or WS for overspending the same should apply here.

It went on servicing the financial madness of previous regimes, who incidentally awarded the ludicrous salaries and players wages.

Too little, too late from Rangers.

 

It's unacceptable that our club continues to leave it to the fans to pursue such issues. Immense credit to the bears who followed this through but the fact they had to and RFC did not is extremely disappointing - BBC Scotland ban or not.

Quiet dignity.

The salaries are indefensible under any circumstances in the present climate.

Apart from McCoist's £700k, ID is said to be on £400k KM on £250k and the kit man on £175k, shameful and the economics of the mad house.