Hildy
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Everything posted by Hildy
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One in seven young adults in the UK have “warm feelings” towards the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) militant group, a poll quoted by London-based newspaper*The Times*reported on Friday. http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/10/31/One-in-seven-young-Brits-have-warm-feelings-towards-ISIS-poll.html What should society do about this? Send the police round? Sadly, we have created a society where hateful remarks are fairly commonplace, but involving the police in a tasteless remark about a dreadful disaster is entirely the wrong way to proceed. For decades, it has been commonplace to hear jokes about dreadful events within hours or even minutes after they have occurred. It is extremely insensitive and demonstrates seriously bad taste, but it's the way it is. A free society will tolerate this, as it should, even if it is cringeworthy, tasteless and embarrassing.
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Fan board elections now closed as of Saturday 20 September
Hildy replied to Frankie's topic in Rangers Chat
When you say 'used to be my club', I take it that you mean in the sense that we all felt that it was our club and not that you have given up on it? Welcome back. I haven't seen you on here for a while. -
RST launch merchandise alternative Fleshers Haugh Limited
Hildy replied to the gunslinger's topic in Rangers Chat
A bit of enterprise from the RST. I like it. -
It always helps to meet the people and to be seen to meet the people. It would not have won him the day, though. After all, it's not that everyone has a vote on such an important matter . . .
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It's easy to be critical after the event, and only a week or so ago people thought that he was going to succeed, but I thank Dave King for his involvement even though I was never convinced that he would have been a success in the job. He would have been eminently more desirable than what we are getting now, though. It could be that he will have a role to play in the future, but if not, I think his money will be in more deserving hands by keeping it in the family than by spending it on a football club that is turning into the Ibrox branch of Sports Direct.
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Livingston produced an official programme that was inaccurate and damaging. The football authorities should have been all over it like a rash, but of course nothing seems to have happened. Rangers have complained officially, so we are told, so we'll see what happens. This is something that we are right to take seriously. Tasteless tweets, though - that's a bit different. I don't believe the tweeter should lose his job or be prosecuted. We are reaching a stage where people take offence at just about anything, as though they possess a divine morality and anything that doesn't fit with their world view is automatically objectionable. People should find themselves in bother for threatening behaviour, but not tasteless comments.
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That's a good statement. It says what has to be said.
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This debacle, which still isn't over, has taken its toll on the club and support. There will be a price to pay for being out of the top division for at least three years; for having a team that is world-class only in the way that it bores people, for having ownership that isn't trusted, for having a new dictator who seems remote and somewhat less than open about his plans, and for retaining a manager who is widely perceived to be not good enough. Rangers has lost fans for all the above reasons, and even if better days come along, many have had enough. They will not be back. Someone should do a survey in the schools in and around Glasgow. What percentage of school-age youngsters support Rangers? I suspect that a larger number than ever before will express a preference for an English or continental team. The landscape has changed and young impressionable people will just as easily follow Barcelona or Real Madrid from their bedroom as Rangers from Ibrox. While we wonder about the plans of Mike Ashley, or indeed anyone else who turns up in the Rangers boardroom, we should be aware that it is quite likely that Rangers has peaked as a football club and Scottish institution. If we were a coherent football club, we could win people back, but we aren't and we're not likely to be any time soon. In the modern era, Rangers is not the attraction it once was. Something groundbreaking will need to occur to turn things around. When the fog eventually lifts at Ibrox, the view may be one of open spaces and empty blue seats.
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I don't think it helps to attack others for withdrawing support. Frankly, Rangers feels like a different club now, a club that is more of a commercial entity than a meaningful expression of identity. If it is has changed so much that it has lost its appeal, people will walk away, and if their hearts aren't in it, they will have made the right decision. Inevitably, though, they will join in from time to time with internet discussions on the club, and they should be encouraged to do so. Just because they have reached a stage where they no longer wish to attend Ibrox, they will almost certainly have spent years and plenty of money following the club in the past. This entitles them to an opinion on Rangers matters, and don't forget, you might feel the same as they do one day. Who amongst us ever thought that we'd give up on Rangers? Probably no-one, but plenty already have and more will follow them.
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I argued - and still do - for fan ownership, but while I can understand someone not supporting the current lot financially, others believe that they are in the wrong by withdrawing support. I can see both sides of this coin and while I am more inclined to the position you hold, I am reluctant to criticise those who believed they were doing the right thing by propping the current lot up by continuing to attend. When the message is constantly - don't trust them - and when the choice presented is effectively to chuck it or keep supporting - because many critics have nothing else to offer other than badmouthing various Ibrox high-ups - fans will find a way to keep doing what they instinctively want to do anyway: keep following on.
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We've had fan groups and individual posters going to extraordinary lengths to explain how Rangers has been in untrustworthy hands; how the club employs people to spin news stories, how it has had financial difficulties, how inaccurate statements have come from the club, and how some of the leading figures at Rangers have been financially over-rewarded. This is fine. It is also very welcome, but what good does it do when most of the club's critics have spent hours analysing what was wrong - but not recommending a course of action to make things better? It is easy to snipe from the sidelines, but even when this is clearly justified, if nothing is on offer other than to warn people against certain individuals and particular investors, it does not necessarily follow that the situation is going to improve. At least some of those who will back Ashley will do so because alternative ways forward were rarely heard. Essentially, if they want to keep supporting Rangers, they will force themselves to believe in Ashley simply because he appears to be the main man. It was one thing to highlight incompetence, greed and dishonesty, but what is a Rangers fan supposed to do with this information? In politics, people are asked not to put their trust in certain candidates, but they are offered an alternative. What alternative did a Rangers fan have if he was persuaded not to trust Murray, Whyte, Green, the current lot and now Ashley? What did those critics of the club in recent years expect ordinary Rangers fans to do when everyone was flagged up as inappropriate? It was right to criticise those not suitable for the positions they were in at Rangers, but when the criticism goes on endlessly and with hardly any alternatives on offer, it begins to fall on deaf ears. Ashley is the wrong answer for Rangers, but ordinary fans will accept him because critics never agreed on a better alternative. The infatuation with 'bad guy' analysis became all-consuming.
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The power of money allied to a ruthless streak - it can certainly get results. It remains to be seen if Ashley will be allowed to buy up a controlling interest or whether he'll have enough allies to carry on as though he is Mr 51%, but this man does things his way and compromises only when he's feeling charitable. Those who worshipped David Murray will adore Mike Ashley and be obedient to his every whim. For others, though, this will be the last stop on a Rangers journey that turned into a mystery tour.
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There's nothing to be lost by talking to Ashley, but a number of Rangers fans think that the club has already been lost - that it has changed so much from the club they knew that their allegiance to it has been seriously undermined. When a football club is a community of people, those who belong to it are committed and motivated. When the club becomes a soulless commercial venture ruled by one or more persons who have no connection or affinity to it, it does not automatically command allegiance from the community that once eagerly flocked to it. It is easier to walk away from Rangers than it has ever been - and harder to be drawn to it than ever before. In the hearts of many, the club has already died.
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Nothing from Ashley at all, just a source close to him.
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I would hope that fans who stop going turn their attention to doing something constructive like putting a few quid towards BuyRangers. I have no quibble with people chucking it, but I would urge them to do what they can to make things better at some point in the future. Ashley may be in a position to do a power of good at Rangers, but he has other priorities, and his legacy could be to leave Rangers with a mountain of debt that could cripple or even destroy it. One thing is certain, Rangers' problems are not over. Future crises are inevitable.
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I haven't given in. I have no wish to see supporters embarking on campaigns that will achieve nothing other than the satisfaction of doing something while annoying and angering fellow fans. The answer to our troubles has always been for the support to own the club, but I've already made this point repeatedly. If people think that marching is a cure for our ills, I pity them. The answer today is the same as the answer was yesterday and will be tomorrow: fan ownership. Right now, Mike Ashley is about to become the new Ibrox puppetmaster. Intelligence stands a chance of winning the club back from him, but marching back and forth never will. It's best that we realise this: right now.
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As usual, the news isn't good. A rich guy whose money talks more than his mouth is now the most influential figure at Rangers, and having already acquired certain rights with regard to merchandise and the stadium itself, what does he do? He lends the club money. He doesn't gift it to the club - he lends it. Make no mistake, this money will have to be paid back and so will any future loans from the same source. Mike Ashley isn't a sugar daddy. He will want a return on every penny that he puts in to Rangers. Dave King and his backers have tried to land the club, but so far, without success. A seeming reluctance to buy up shares in Rangers hasn't helped, but it's pointless getting angry at those who have tried and failed. We are where we are. The support is split. Thousands will not pay another cent towards a club that they believe has been hijacked by people who only care for it while it suits their commercial purpose. I have no problem with this view. It is entirely understandable. Others will follow on as per usual. That's fine too. We are football fans. We know only too well that allegiance usually triumphs over ownership details and boardroom personnel. We are likely then to have a weakened club in terms of strength of support, and the likely renaming of Ibrox is likely to turn more people away. While this is a move that I could live with in more normal circumstances, I can fully understand why people will be angry if Ibrox becomes sponsored when the sponsor has apparently paid mere shekels for the privilege while lending - yes lending - money to the club. What do we do then? Those who approve of the new owner or don't care who he is will carry on attending and buying merchandise. It is those who find themselves unable to support Rangers who have to ask themselves what they should do next. Protest marches? What have they achieved so far? Answer: nothing. Boycotts? Organised boycotts fade and die and are perceived to have faded and died. They could be counter-productive. Walk-outs? About as useful as marches. Travelling to Ibrox and hanging around outside while the game is on? Plain daft. Card displays and banner messages? They won't change a thing. If you can't accept what has happened to the club, and if you will not support it any more, you already have your answer. Privately, as an individual, you will make your point by not attending. Those who feel as you do will reinforce the message, but do not harass others into joining you. Equally, to those who will follow on as normal, understand one thing: thousands of your fellow fans feel they have a good reason to stop going to Ibrox - as good as yours is for continuing to go. Do not harass them. History will decide if this is a bump in the road or the edge of a cliff.
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Wallace has gone on holiday? If I remember correctly, he went on holiday soon after arriving. The club is in crisis and yet the CEO feels able to take a break. If this is true, the politest thing to say is that I'm not impressed.
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If Ashley wins this battle, it'll be game over for a number of people. Some say they will fight to get the club back, but they haven't a clue where to start. Fighting talk is mostly empty rhetoric. Ibrox has been occupied by an alien force and it wasn't difficult to storm the building. Let's face it, we put the welcome mat out. The support has a fault line running through it. One side cannot grasp why there is an absence of a total boycott and the other doesn't understand why so many have chucked it. While some will obsess about the size of Ashley's wallet, others will realise that everything that comes out of it will be unrepayable loans - not gifts. The team playing at the Ibrox Sports Direct Arena will retain a fascination even for those who choose to stop following it, but in time, it will gradually slip off their radar. What Rangers is likely to become is a long way from what it used to be. It's hard to have a sincere commitment to a club whose primary function is to make a multi-millionaire an even richer multi-millionaire. For those preparing themselves for a future without Rangers, and who believe that the club is leaving them rather than the other way round, I have some sympathy with them. Even before Ashley turned up, many felt that this was a shadow Rangers. It was the same club alright - but with no soul. If Ashley starts pulling the strings, Rangers will become a plastic imitation of a club that once had substance and grandeur. It would take a real effort to have deep feelings for a club like that.
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Wake up? Now, after watching the club disintegrate before our eyes over the last few years? It's a bit late for that, and mass marches aren't going to achieve anything. We're protesting too much and offering too little. Fan ownership would cure most of our problems. If fans have to wake up to anything, they have to wake up to that.
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The statement does several things: It keeps hopes up within the fanbase that a deal could still be struck. It shows Ashley in a very poor light. An unwillingness to even engage is very bad form. If he becomes the main player at Rangers, thousands will chuck it. It reminds us that the board are puppets. The regime needs to be changed - not just the board. It gives people an insight into the workings of those who are paid to 'spin'. In its own quiet way, it is a rallying call to the support. It's quite a good statement, all things considered.
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So 20,000 really didn't renew last season? What is the breakdown of current season ticket holders? I believe a number have been given away free but I wonder what the figure is for children and other discounted groups. It would be interesting to see full details.
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That's the way it is, Rab. This is how the game is played at Rangers and it's how you want it to be. If Dermot Desmond's second cousin three times removed bought Rangers tomorrow, you'd have to deal with it and live with it. There's no point complaining if an owner doesn't meet with your approval when you have been holding the door open for everyone and anyone to stroll right through it. If Dave King buys Rangers and decides to run it on a shoestring budget, he'll be perfectly entitled to do just that. No-one needs to prove anything to buy Rangers - just agree a deal with the seller(s), and that's it. I'm not a fan of Dave King, but if he succeeds in buying Rangers, he'll be a far better owner than we deserve even if the team labours and struggles for years. You want the ownership of Rangers trusted to luck. If King gets the gig, we'll have landed lucky - this time . . .
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Newcastle United have become collateral damage in the battle for Rangers
Hildy replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
I'm not a fan of either, but King put in £20m before and it wasn't a loan. It is possible that a King consortium could find the means to put more money into the club - money that will not have to be paid back. Ashley has loaned a substantial sum to Newcastle, but one way or another, he wants it back. There is a difference here, and we should not let personal feelings towards either man cloud the issue. The well-being of Rangers, short and long term, is probably a far higher priority with King than it will ever be with Ashley. I don't think we should forget that. -
Newcastle United have become collateral damage in the battle for Rangers
Hildy replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
He might have more to lend Rangers and a substantial loan could end up being a millstone for the club for years to come. When 'investment' comes in the form of a loan that we may never be able to repay, why would anyone welcome it?