buster.

I don't think it's fair to call bears fools. Many fans just want to support their club and have no real interest in the politics that often accompany it nowadays.

 

Of course there's a difference between them and people who actively spin for those that run the club (I won't say the board as they're just the hired hand) but even then people are entitled to their opinion and I don't think every single issue is as clear-cut as some will insist.

 

At the end of the day it's quite simple: you renew or you don't. And, while I don't think this fund will be a huge success, I think many, many fans will not renew. Thus, when we consider the auditor caveat in the financials, that's a rather big problem for the club. A problem they've yet to answer.

 

All in all, I think 20-25,000 fans will renew but we may get more walk-ups than usual - at the start of the season anyway. Will that be enough to keep the wolf from the door? If not, what securities will be demanded by those that will have to bridge the financial gap?

 

That's the question this fund really asks and, no matter our position, it's one we should all be asking. If you don't then while you may not be a fool, I'd would seriously ask if you'd been concious over the last few years. Because, as it stands, we're sleep-walking right into another insolvency crisis.

I appreciate what you say Frankie but some things need saying or asking. 'Serially bad advisors' of club politics need to have a light shone upon them.

As you point out we are at a difficult crossroads.

If you got bad advice from X on three different occasions, would you look for or value it on a 4th ?

If you gave bad advice on three different occasions, would you be more circumspect to shout from the rooftops on a 4th ?............................I would think so unless there were 'interests' at the root of it.

A bit OTT is it not GS; calling people who renew "fools".

 

But if so, I'm happy to be so categorised.

Fools are people who fell for and promoted the grand slam of CW, the CG front, Mather Easdale & Stockbridge and now do the same the current board.

The main and loud voices on RM fall into this category.

Fool me once......................shame on you

Fool me twice.....................shame on me

Fool me repeatedly..........beyond help

That's a watered down way of describing blackmail, if we're going down that route can we not demand a change of manager, a player to be punted etc.

That's rich coming from someone supporting the board.

I'm saying season tickets aren't a vote of confidence to a boardroom

The support have one main meaningful tool to use in an effort to influence the boardroom and it's ST's.

Whether you call it a 'vote of confidence' or not is unimportant.

The board prefers money to confidence and have proved to manage that money in a way that isn't in the best interests of the football club going forward. They act in their own interests and if it is allowed to continue our club will fade away regards levels of competivity.

What we have is groups of supporters who are serial misjudgers of such situations trying to tell us the board should be supported.

You couldn't make it up !!!

Murray held us in contempt and he got season ticket money for 20 odd years.

 

The regime isn't the club

Are you saying that we should just continue bending over because it's been going on for years ?

I guess all must have split personalities, teddy bears one minute, then something else the next.

 

No disrespect intended GS; but I am more than a little troubled by the thought that the Board of my Club might hate me.

 

Do you have secret tapes?

Personally I don't think "hate" was the right word but the various incarnations of the board in recent years have treated the support with disdain and have abused the fans loyalty, including the current incumbents.

As for the vast majority of those who back the current board, their track record in such judgement calls is around about the same percentage as the Graham Wallace bonus.

With that in mind, it is difficult to understand why they aren't somewhat more circumspect in their pronouncements these days, but no !!

And that's absolutely fine.

 

However, there would be a strong argument to say that the Club should give priority to those who choose to renew within the stated deadline, rather than those who chose to withhold their money for whatever reason.

As I said, many others have more important matters in the forefront of their mind, than their seat.

No I don't but remember that transfers will be open as soon as the ST deadline passes and I know a lot of people who sit around me who are keen to get better seats.

I know a lot of people who have other priorities.

To stress that you may well lose your own seat even if the scheme succeeds.

 

Because although the FAQ’s state that “We will guarantee that we will pass your existing seat and personal details to Rangers along with your payment if the security is granted. This will enable the club to allocate your seat to you as long as it is still available.” Unless there is an agreement in place between Ibrox 1872 Ltd and Rangers then the Club can just as easily allocate any seat (or indeed no seat) that they feel like even if yours is available.

.

Do you think it would be a particularly wise move by the club to allocate any old seat despite the fact that your habitual seat is available ?

No, no , no, not even the most useless board in our entire history could be this useless.

 

Maybe we need to see them marching down Edmiston Drive in hooped shirts or something.

The various incarnations of the sp.ivline seem to have left the football department to more or less get on with it. Throwing a disproportionate amount of money at it but not ensuring that it was well spent and taking for granted success in the lower leagues. They've also used it as a way of guarranting large bonus triggers.

When you look back at the IPO, not a penny was provisionally allocated towards scouting, youth & development but noises were made about CL music and shares for the Grandkids which were undiluted bull along with so much more of it.

If you look at the 'Long Review' it has on the face of it more attention paid to the football department but for me it is still in the main, hogwash. It presents unrealistic ambitions and a lack of detail as to why those ambitions are attainable, both practically and financially.

If there has been an oversight regards a players contract, it wouldn't surprise me and would only help confirm an omnishambles that from the boardroom is far more interested in the bottomline and finding creative ways of syphoning money out of the club.

I could picture them in the boardroom distributing a bag of Fivers into two piles, "one to us, one to them, one to us, one to them............" and then giving one pile to Ally McCoist and telling him that his remit is to buy a couple of players that will help to flog ST's and whilst you are it give Mr.Tyrell a couple of unattainable names and we'll get them linked in The Sun via Mr. Ibrox Insider or Al Lamont.

We are left as the mug punters who have to fund the next stage of the sp.iv circus.

And for those who shouting about how this time it'll be different, the vast majority of them have a 100% record in bad judgement calls regarding similar.

There is a Thread on FF about young Charlie Telfer going to DU.

Elfideldo hinted something along that line was about to happen, no idea if this was what he referred to.

Looking from a promising young player's perspective looking to break through it's a no-brainer, going to a club like Dundee utd. gives you a better chance of taking a major step along the way.

I think dB used s-form because it's a user-field for our newer forum members.

That's a relief, as I was getting worried about some new militant German 'organisation' !!

I've got the money sitting there but I won't be parting with it until this board gets chased. Will pay to go to a few games but that'll be it. I'm sure there will be hundreds if not thousands more like me.

IMO that's a reasonable and understandable stance.

By now we should realise that words aren't worth the paper they may be written on.

I think that a lot of people want to see actions instead.

Too much of the rhetoric has been misleading or downright untrue and that's before you talk about the pounds that came and went.

i'd agree that the club in its entirety from Boardroom to pitch is indeed a shambles.

 

However, to admonish the management and players from extracting cash for little return is wrong.

 

800K a year with 100% bonuses for winning division 3 with a worse record than East fife managed - disgusting.

We agree the club is a shambles from top to bottom.

The most important part of this omnishambles is in the boardroom, from where the club is run and strategic decisions taken.

eg.

- If the footballing operation is not performing the board need to make the changes they deem necessary so as to put that right within budgets that they set. If individuals within the football operation (management) aren't and haven't been performing at a suitable level, decisions need to be made.

- If the footballing budget can't be supported by income, the board need to increase income and/or reduce expenditure in a timely way (doesn't take 120+ days to discover that).

However what we've had at Ibrox is successive incarnations of the boardroom with broadly similar shareholders backing them abdicating responsibility whilst filling their own or friends pockets either directly or indirectly.

Miller cuts short Canadian affair with Rangers on horizon

And he is believed to be so keen to help Ally McCoist's side return to the top flight he has agreed to a massive cut in wages.

 

If the ex-Hibs, Wolves, Derby County and Cardiff City hit man puts pen to paper at the Gers he will be earning less than Seb Faure and Arnold Peralta.

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Couple of things with that report.

The phrase "he is believed" = Mibbees aye, mibbees naw, mibbees not as much as we are pushing

Does the reporter know exactly what Faure and Peralta earn and if he does, why not specify ?

Spin, moonbeams and soundbites at ST renewal time tend to be like flowers in springtime although there would seem to be a solid base to this particular story.

It must be said that with the current board at Ibrox it would seem as we live in a perma-Spring.

Of that there is no doubt. In years to come we will look back at these three seasons and think what an opportunity wasted.

I agree but I think the history books on the club as a whole will show an omnishambles at all levels, with other issues putting the on-field into the shade.

New member checking in.

 

45 years young, season ticket holder (freshly renewed), shareholder, and an escapee from the childish madhouse that is RangersMedia, and the disgusting , tarrier run £ollow £ollow.

They come,........ They abuse,......... They go.........

It was ironic that I (Time4_Change) joined same day as Traditionalist and I guess we were always on course for opposite sides of the debate, LOL.

I implored him to debate points as it is through reasonable dialogue backed up where possible that arguments can be found wanting or to be solid.

I'm an older Bear whose first memories are of the 72/73 season and have at times been a poster on other sites, mostly FF.

Neither Ally or Lennon are what I'd call good managers.

You put either in a provincial club with a limited budget and they'd struggle.

Looking forward to seeing Lennon metaphorically 'crash and burn' when he goes South.

As for Ally, he won't get another management job at any decent level, this in itself says everything.

The board in keeping Ally in charge aren't doing their job.

Some good news coming out of last night's PotY dinner is that Lewis Macleod has been given the all-clear to play again after some health problems, including a long term virus.

 

Also Lee Wallace won the main award with Fraser Aird winning the young player of the year prize.

 

During the last couple of seasons, Lee Wallace has been a man amongst boys.

On the flipside he shows how far some of the other players are away from the level required further down the line.

I think Cribari is going to be involved with the youth setup. A strange one but I assume there must be a solid reason for the decision.

If the board are serious regarding a director of football appointment (the act itself & his influence being brought to bear) then surely you carry out a selection process and get him in prior to organising the following season.

The club is all over the place, mixed messages abound, the share price drops and executive control from upstairs is found wanting once again. 'Wanting' to fill their pockets whilst the club steadily falls apart.

I think Cribari is staying on as a coach from next season.

 

Looks like Little may be going to Sheffield while Clark will learn a lot from Miller and, dare I say it, Boyd if he comes too.

Re.Cribari: Is this in place of a current coach who will be leaving ?

It would also raise the question of the (lack of) influence of any prospective DoF (or equivalent) going forward.

As for Miller, it's all so predictable.

He's been a good player and would be above average in the Championship if he stays clear of injury but we have to break the mould and start believeing in the younger players, especially when in the lower leagues. The club hasn't got the money to maintain the old approach, as it now has to allocate serious money to go places other than football, whether that be directly or indirectly..

Some unfair comments here & I am bound to defend my mate, although his comment on FS could only result in a ban.

 

I've been asking him for a while to try Gersnet because he's sharp and an excellent writer and a total Rangers fanatic. His ability is fuelled by anger and aggression and it boils over frequently but it can result in superb stuff. He also has health issues and adopts the same aggressive approach to them, which I assume to be a coping mechanism, but obviously you can't extend how you deal with yourself to others, especially not on day 1, and expect people not to take issue.

 

Maybe Vb have been sending in entryists for all I know but in this case I have to take the blame, I think.

 

A curious start to the week, defending a Vanguard bear.

If Traditionalist is one of the sharper VB's then that explains a lot in itself.

Apart from the abuse, he put forward an argument, it was found to be flawed as he couldn't back it up and swiftly looked to change the subject.

That is to say it helped confirm much of what others had told me about the VB.

The Future is the Past !

Judgements reserved but that's not really the point

How long do you think it right to reserve judgement ?

So far, by the time the judgement has eventually seen through the fog we get somebody else in and they start again. During these various chancers passing through Ibrox things are getting steadily worse.

Rather than pin blame on Ally McCoist and the football department in general or the executive board and powers in and around the board,....I'd point to the club being an Omnishambles at just about all levels.

However there is an important difference between the football and the executive board and that is the former isn't very good whilst the latter has been designed to extract money.