JohnMc

Great stuff 26th, looking forward to reading this during the season ahead. 

15 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

John, I am not Christine.  You have the correct sex but wrong person ?

 

I think you are right about hoping for a rush to vaccinate etc  but I'm not sure they will withdraw it.  Everything they touch is a shambles so this will just be one more that they and the media will ignore.

Apologies, Blue Moon. 
You're right about it being a shambles, which is why I think they'll withdraw it before it needs enforced. Whether it'll encourage anyone unvaccinated to get the vaccine is the bit I remain unsure about. A version of this was unpopular but fairly successful in France over the summer. The fact they've had to withdraw their main vaccine encouragement advertisement recently too won't help either. It's a mess. 

17 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

What difference is a piece of paper going to make?   Double vaccinated people are catching it too.   It makes little sense to me at all.  Aside that I am fundamentally opposed to them in principle.  I also disagree with giving this dictatorial, controlling government any more power over me or anyone else.

None Christine, that's not what this is about. It's about 'encouraging' those still unvaccinated, particularly young people, to get vaccinated. I suspect the hope is there's a surge in the coming weeks of people getting vaccinated and they can then drop this entirely. It will be unpopular and difficult to enforce but then it was never actually about that anyway. 

17 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

If I want to go about my life as normal.  Because I happen to attend large sporting events I can't.  I either have to sacrifice my lifestyle or my privacy. I don't think that I should have to without good cause. I'm yet to see evidence that there is a good cause.

 

Ask yourself what proportion of ~400k will catch covid.  Ask yourself what proportion of that number already have antibodies due to prior infection.  Ask yourself how many will catch covid concurrently.  Ask yourself how many will catch covid due to attending a large sporting event.  Ask yourself how many of those will have little or no risk of requiring intensive care let alone death.  Answers to each of those questions will diminish the number further until we reach the point that the violation of privacy is obviously farcical.

 

Although it is earth shattering to learn that I can vote I suspect that more is required.  None of the parties are opposed to the vaccine passport as a matter of principle.  The opposition parties have a duty to scrutinise the legislation and oppose it.  Real protection from such legislation will not come unless the electorate wakes up.  Political parties will neither uphold privacy nor leave us alone unless the electorate holds them to account. That means critique of every stupid, and unjustified, rule that is introduced. As it is the numerous feeble minded, or ignorant, souls will shrug and ask what's the problem? 

Sacrifice your privacy? Most of the population walk about with tracking devices in their pockets and freely share the most intimate information about themselves, willingly, with colossal American tech companies and advertisers everyday. But yeah, I can see why after 18 months of limitations on our movement and 1000's of deaths letting Rangers know if you've had the vaccine aimed at pulling us out of this hell is your biggest concern right now. They already have your address, your credit history and your bank details, if they wanted to destroy you they can do it already. 

I don't need to ask myself anything. The NHS was close to being overwhelmed every winter before Covid, if even 0.5% of those not vaccinated end up needing hospitalisation the NHS would be unable to cope.

There are literally thousands of people waiting for NHS treatment for non-Covid related issues currently, some of those people will die before they get it. That's before we even attempt to calculate the financial and social cost of the last 18 months. Everyone of us should be doing what we can to reduce the incidence and severity of Covid. Currently, the vast majority of professionals in the field of medicine say getting vaccinated is the best way out of this. You may disagree with them, fair enough. I'm not sure what your bacterial and immunology qualifications are, but until you're recognised for the expertise in this field you seem to think you have then the rest of us can continue to ignore you and instead listen to those who have spent their entire lives preparing for this. 

I'm old enough to remember when some people were furious that the government were insisting that motor-cyclists wear helmets. This was an invasion of their privacy, the Government had no right to tell some what they can and can't wear was the argument then. Likewise similar arguments were aired by enraged civil-libertarians when seat belt wearing was made compulsory in cars too.

The government has no right to involve themselves in people's lives like that, apparently. Bull shit. We don't live in a bubble, our actions have consequences and ripples that might be unintentional but they are real and long lasting all the same. If you are involved in a motorcycle accident while not wearing a helmet you are, on average, 42% more likely to die and 69% more likely to suffer a serious brain injury. Aside from the immediate trauma of the people who first arrive at the scene of the accident, there's the police and ambulance crew who'll spend hours of their time attending to you, the many, many specialist hospital staff who'll try and save your life and then slowly try and rebuild it, perhaps months of physio and rehabilitation and maybe ongoing costs if you're unable to return to work or even live it at home again. Plus there's your immediate family, friends, neighbours and colleagues who will have to deal with the fall out of your actions. 

Catching Covid is not without consequences. It's not just you it affects. Get over yourself, you're not actually that important in the grand scheme of things. The sooner we are able to emerge from this and return to life as we knew it the better. If that means showing Pizza Express a slip of paper when I make booking or having to deal with possibly the worst ticket office in the Scottish football then so be it. It's a small price to pay. 

We're winning while not playing particularly well, that's a big positive. 

That's why Tav is our number 1 right back, he'll deliver a goal scoring opportunity or even a goal in almost every match he plays. Stunning technique for that goal. 

St Johnstone are horrible to watch, remind me of Motherwell under Tommy McLean. 

1 hour ago, ranger_syntax said:

It's not a choice between vaccine passports and another lockdown.  The government has the option to do neither.

 

This will affect every single person that attends a sporting event with over 10,000 present.  So given the nature of this forum then I suspect it will affect many of us.

 

I'm opposed to it because I don't believe that I should have to share my private medical information with a third party without good cause.  I also don't believe that anybody should be obliged to take the vaccine if they don't want to take it.

 

As far as I can tell the vaccine does not prevent you from catching the virus.  Neither does it prevent you from spreading it.  I does significantly reduce the likelihood of serious illness and death.  If that's all true then the only person endangered would be the person who remains unvaccinated.  So why not let the individual take this risk?  I'm happy to be corrected about the impact of the vaccine on transmission.

 

What is the stated impact of vaccine passports?  How many lives does the government estimate that this measure will save?  Is the N.H.S. in danger of being overwhelmed by the remaining 9-16% of the population?  All questions that the government should have to answer before legislating for this.  Any answer to these questions will reliably turn out to have been exaggerated.

 

Would the vaccine passport survive an equalities impact assessment?  Reportedly black and minority ethnic groups are significantly less likely to be vaccinated.  People throughout public institutions are asked to assess decisions for a balanced impact across protected characteristics.  Is that happening here?  You might worry that the government applies certain practices only when it suits.

 

As an aside this is the thin end of the wedge.  Scotland suffers from an electorate with an inability to critique any government decisions.  It won't end well.

Attending football matches, gigs or clubs is not compulsory, no one is making you attend or give over private medical information if you don't want too. Likewise you don't have to get the vaccine, that's still personal choice. 

Scotland has a baseline of 184 ICU beds, this can be escalated up to 738 in times of crisis. The number of people 18 years old or over is around 4,313,400, so 9% of that is 388,206. I'll let you work out whether there's a danger of the NHS being overwhelmed as the poorer weather comes in. 

Vaccine passports are already being used in a number of countries in various formats, Scottish government didn't come up with this idea in a vacuum. We're almost certainly following what was introduced in France earlier in the summer. It was unpopular with many people there too, but it has been successful in encouraging people to get vaccinated. 

You are still entitled to vote for whoever you want at the next election, as is everyone else in Scotland and the UK.

2 hours ago, Bill said:

Because it won’t make a blind bit of difference to national Covid infection rates.

 

Its a bit like thinking reducing UK carbon emissions will make a difference to global climate. It’s pure distraction.

Maybe. I think it's about increasing the number of people who are vaccinated, not reducing overall infection rates, only a lockdown of some kind will do that. 

There's little doubt in my mind we're running a herd immunity policy just now. Gambling that enough people who are vaccinated come into contact with the virus, have mild symptoms and so build up a natural immunity to it while the weather is good and the vaccine remains potent in their system. Problem is un-vaccinated people are catching it and some are being hospitalised, for me this is all about 'encouraging' those people to get vaccinated. 

2 hours ago, compo said:

I see it this way once Sturgeon struts her stuff at the up coming climate conference she will impose another lockdown and that will give her an excuse to be on your television sets every day .

I know it can be hard to remove the politics from this, but surely this is a public health message rather than a political one? I know opposition MSPs largely voted against it but covid passports have already been legislated in England and will almost certainly be required for similar events as in Scotland. 

COP26 is a UN event, being hosted the UK government, not the Scottish government. The cynic in me suspects they chose Glasgow in November to host it so the inevitable climate change and various anarchist type groups who protest these events might be put off by the almost perpetual darkness and shit weather.

I suspect every politician will attempt to make capital from it, Sturgeon included. I'm not sure you can conflate it with the Covid passport. 

3 hours ago, Bluedell said:

I think for many, it's freedom to choose issue. They don't feel the state has the right to tell them that they must get vaccinated.

 

I can see both sides but I'd certainly prefer that more people got vaccinated.

Yeah, I can see that. To be fair the state isn't saying you have to get vaccinated, it's saying someone is perfectly entitled not to get vaccinated, but they can't attend large social or sporting events then. I suspect you'll see limits on foreign travel for un-vaccinated and various other restrictions in an attempt to 'force' vaccination without actual legislation. Insurance companies and risk managers are already advising big employers on 'no-vaccine no-job' policies, viewing the risk of a civil liberties law suit being less costly than law suit from someone who has caught covid at work. 

Why is everyone so against this? If it's a choice between this and another lockdown then I choose this every time. Scotland currently has infection numbers of over 6,000, this time last year that number was a couple of hundred. Thankfully most people are vaccinated so the chance of serious illness and death are greatly reduced, but let's not pretend the danger has gone away completely. Glasgow has enjoyed a surprisingly warm start to the autumn, but that won't last and as the colder weather arrives those infection numbers will increase again. 84% of Scots are double jagged, 91% have had one, so in reality this isn't going to affect that many of us. there's a month until this comes into force so time for the rest to start getting their vaccines, which is surely what the purpose of this is.

I understand the nervousness many of us have regarding Rangers ticket office's ability to deal with this, but that's surely preferable to not seeing Rangers at all, despite what politicians are currently saying, that must be a real possibility if these infection numbers continue to rise. 

15 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I agree but the song is aimed at the type who attend football matches, waves an Irish tricolor and sings songs about the Provos and the Fields of Athenry, whilst also opposing all things British.

 

I'd have thought that was obvious.

 

I'd imagine like a huge amount of Scots, I have ancestry from Ireland (as in Irish and Ulster/Scots) but think this is a ridiculous overreaction to run of the mill West of Scotland football rivalry.  The onslaught will doubtless continue - they want us dead and buried (Rangers and Scottish Unionism).

I don't think anyone is disputing this is being used for political and mischief reasons, I certainly wasn't. 

26 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Agree completely.  It is a piss take.  This anti Irish nonsense needs addressed.  They are either Irish or Scottish, not both.  We are not talking here about people who are first or second generation immigrants.  

 

All of that aside, I wish they would just stop singing stuff to the offended.  I am sick of them feeding Dornan, Yousef, Haggerty et alia.  It just adds to the myth that we are full of hate while they remain the good guys. 

While agreeing with everything else you've said I think you can be both Irish and Scottish, or indeed Indian and Scottish or Italian and Scottish or wherever and Scottish, I don't think it's a binary choice. Nationality and identity is a funny thing and differs from person to person. While legally someone might be 'British', been born here, live here, have a UK passport and identify with all the cultural aspects associated with that, they can still have an attachment, however emotional, to another country that a parent or grandparent is from. 

Personally, you have to go far back in my lineage to find an ancestor from another country, so my identity isn't a question for me. But my wife wasn't born in the UK, doesn't have a British passport and certainly doesn't see herself as British, or Scottish, no matter what affection and emotional attachment she now has for it. My children are being raised in Glasgow, they're Scottish, but they have an attachment to their mother's home, they have cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents there, I suspect they'll always have an affection for it. They might even pass this on to their children too, who knows. 

When I lived in Australia I found it interesting to speak with people who had literally fled persecution in their 'home country' before arriving in Australia. These people considered themselves Australian but retained an affection and cultural attachment to where they were born, despite the sometimes awful treatment they'd encountered there. That attachment was passed to their children. When I lived in Australia I didn't stop being Scottish either. 

As I said at the start I think you're correct about this being blown out of proportion and being taken a lot more seriously than it's intended, no one is seriously calling for 3rd generation Irish to be repatriated after all. But, someone born in Scotland, to parents born in Scotland, can still have an emotional tie and affection to another country and feel targeted, I think. 

1 hour ago, ranger_syntax said:

Earth shattering.

 

Why must I be subjected to it?

Why are you asking me? Maybe they think you're stupid.

This is known in political circles as 'nudge'. It's about trying to get people to do something you want them to do without legislation. This is an attempt to get those who haven't been vaccinated to either get the jags or face potentially missing out on social activities. It's mainly aimed at younger people who have been slower to take up the vaccines and who might be more likely to want to go to nightclubs and gigs. When faced with the possibility of missing out on social events they might decide to get vaccinated, which is what this is all about. 

3 hours ago, compo said:

So the club think it needed to make a statement about the behaviour of individuals well outside the confines of the stadium, what's the behaviour of people well away from the club have to do with them in the first place .

And who said these people are fans and not just a bunch of silly Billy's out to cause trouble let police Scotland deal with anything outside the stadium after all that's their job .

While I largely agree with you that the club can't be held responsible for what happens in the town an hour before a match when MSP's are publicly calling for a response from Rangers it's difficult for the club to remain silent. Even if the MSP in question is someone with questionable motives and undoubtedly doing it for political reasons, it's hard for the club to simply ignore him, unfortunately. 

1 hour ago, CammyF said:

Ciaran Dickson has signed for Celtic - not overly surprised.

Didn't he leave under something of a cloud last season? We should get a development fee for him now. I remember when Dylan McGeoch left us for them, he was going to be the next big thing. We got £100,000 for him apparently, still the highest transfer fee anyone has ever paid for him. More recently Liam Burt joined them, also a player a lot was expected of at one time. I hear he's a regular in the League Of Ireland now, so that's pleasing. 

If he's willing to join them then I'm happy he's away. 

There was a match against Partick Thistle at Firhill many moons ago where something similar happened. We gave them the ball back but Ian Ferguson then chased them down forcing them into playing it quickly instead of allowing them to retain possession. He was booed by the Thistle support and criticised by some in the media, but everyone at the game knew Thistle were time wasting and indulging in gamesmanship. 

I'm with Tannochside on this, no giving the ball back in those circumstances. 

13 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

 

Wait, are you really making an appeal to authority by linking to a collection of anecdotes in the guardian?!

 

Wahey, you used emojis. Bless. 

2 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

What a load of rubbish.

You're right, I just made that up, it's a fair cop. This guy probably made this up too, https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/aug/23/anti-vaxx-athletes-stance-show-myths-cut-across-boundaries-privilege-covid

Steve Bruce is a shit manager, so this is probably a load of rubbish too, https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/20/steve-bruce-admits-a-lot-of-newcastle-players-have-not-been-vaccinated-covid

There's a bewilderingly high number of professional sports people who won't take the vaccine. It seems to be a mix of 'I'm young and supremely fit so it won't affect me' and exposure to 'positive mindset gurus' from who they've entirely bought into 'I can overcome everything by staying positive and focussed' which of course is great if you're trying to knock 0.5 of a second off your personal best or coming up against the best midfielder in the league but is dangerous if you're facing a highly infectious virus. 

Anyway, I've no idea who many, if any, Rangers players fall into those categories, but it wouldn't be a huge surprise if some of them did. 

Aside from the likely disruption to our team for two important matches this also has potential ramifications as the transfer window nears closing. I assume a player with Covid would fail a medical at another club if they were even allowed to travel for one. Likewise a Covid outbreak at Auchenhowie might make bringing in a player a challenge too. 

I personally know of more cases in Glasgow now than at anytime over the last 18 months. It's inevitable players will come into contact with Covid now, as will all of us. This won't be the last time it happens to us or to other clubs. My kids have been back at school for a week and already we've had 4 letters home about confirmed Covid cases in their classes. Footballers have families and friends and lives outside of football, they're going to catch it like the rest of us will. 

Hopefully those who have tested positive are in good health, as are those close to them. 

1 hour ago, Bluedell said:

That's a little concerning. I hope that the Board know what they're doing.

 

Or Central Car Auctions?

It's not Central Car Auctions, I'm fairly certain of that. 

I assumed it was Tomket as they're already a jersey sponsor and automotive related. Like you I hope the board know what they're doing here.