JohnMc

4 hours ago, Rousseau said:

This is true for every player on our books, or it should be. 

Yeah, probably. Although I suspect there are some players we'd hold out for a really big offer for as we'd rather not lose them at this stage, and others we'd let go more easily. 

Clement will be familiar with Hagi from his time in Belgium and may already have an opinion on him. Hagi has ability, that's clear for everyone to see, but I suspect if a side make us a decent offer for him we'll take it. It might be that a more technical league, like Spain, suits him more. What we'd accept for him is another matter, breaking even might be as good as it gets. 

I'd an irrational dislike for Gary Stevens. Don't ask me to explain it or justify it, I can't. I just didn't like him. 

It has to be Jardine. Many people think Danny McGrain was the best right back Scotland has produced, but he was played at left back for Scotland because Jardine was such a good right back, this at a time when Scotland had genuine world class players. When he left Rangers everyone assumed his career was over. He only went and won Scottish Player Of The Year at Hearts.

Jardine 'managed' a charity side I played in at Ibrox once. He was faced with a dressing room full of guys who'd bid for a place in the team. We were mainly a motley mix of overweight, middle-aged men living a childhood dream. He took a look at us and said 'lads, it's a big pitch, let the ball do the running.' I should have listened, I could barely breathe after 10 minutes. 

My father would say Bobby Shearer should win this, and his record is really something. 

George Young, who I never saw play but whose record speaks for itself and who is held in such regard by those who did see him play that there seems little doubt to his incredible ability.

Richard Gough, a natural leader and as good a centre half as there was playing anywhere at his peak. 

Terry Butcher was arguably the best centre half in the world when he joined us, and was immaculate in his first season. However I'd vote for Young and Gough simply due to their longer time spent at the club. But a centre half line up of Butcher and Frank De Boer at their peak would have been something to see. 

I'm late to this but it has to be Numan. Having Brian Laudrup playing in front of him was of immense help to Robertson, but frankly Brian Laudrup could have made me look like a decent full back as he took 3 defenders with him wherever he went leaving acres of space to charge into. Robertson was good, but Numan was class.

Regency bias is always present in these discussions. Andy Goram played 181 games for Rangers and for those of us lucky to have seen him he literally won matches for us, Leeds away and numerous Celtic matches come to mind. While the perfect keeper for that time, I doubt Goram would be our number one now, his kicking wasn't his strength, but his agility, reflexes and ability to get inside opposing players and managers heads was unrivalled. 

Stefan Klos played 254 times for Rangers, a wonderful return for a player who looked after himself and studied the game. Like Goram he wasn't strong with his passing but his ability to pull off saves was equal to Goram's in my opinion. Klos lacked the personality of Goram, he was quieter and didn't have the rapport with the support that Goram did. But 'der goalie' was an incredible Rangers keeper. 

Bobby Brown spent the 7 seasons before joining Rangers fighting in the 2nd world war. Training to be a PE teacher and playing with Queens Park he joined up along with 5 of his fellow students. He was the only one of them to return. Brown played for Rangers 211 times, a period when Scottish football was genuinely competitive. Bill Struth chose Brown as his first choice for 8 seasons, Brown then remained as an understudy to George Niven for a further 2 years. 

George Niven himself made 221 appearances for Rangers, holding the number 1 spot for nearly a decade. He holds the unusual distinction of being the Scot with the most appearances for Rangers to have never gone on and played for his country. 

His successor was Billy Ritchie, who some on the forum might have seen play. He made 207 appearances for Rangers, including a European final. 

Where regency bias is a negative is with Allan McGregor. I think McGregor is our all time best goalkeeper. I didn't see Niven, Brown or Ritchie play, but I did see Goram, Klos and McGregor and the latter edges it for me. I suspect many of our memories are clouded by last season, a season to far for McGregor. But McGregor made 346 appearances for Rangers and pulled off the two best saves I've ever watched, against Bremen and Slavia. McGregor combined agility and instinctive reflexes with a commanding presence and a will to win that helped transform our dressing room into league winners. These things are subjective, but for me Allan McGregor shades it, but there's some competition for his place. 

15 hours ago, SykseyBear said:

It's not really though is it! Guys an out and out failure. He should be nowhere near this club.

 

He seems to be well thought of as a coach, has previous experience of coaching in Belgium and knows the Scottish league well, he's hardly a controversial appointment. I have an admiration for someone who can face their self destructive behaviour, deal with it and then remain sober for 25 years.

I'd be concerned if Rae was being appointed manager, but as part of a coaching team under Clement I think his place makes sense. Clement doesn't come across as someone who suffers fools or is swayed by sentiment. I expect he'll remove Rae if he doesn't feel he's contributing what he needs. 

Whatever happens speaking about him with a little respect costs nothing. 

That's some way to speak about an ex-player and current coach. 

Yeah, I think I can agree that we're watching completely different games. 

10 hours ago, SykseyBear said:

Do we really? I suppose Scotland internationals

 

Allan McGregor

Robbie McCrorie

Alan Hutton

Charlie Adam

Stephen Hughes

Liam Kelly

John Fleck

 

And multi trophy winning Rangers players 

 

Steven Smith

Ross McCormack

Danny Wilson

Chris Burke etc etc

 

don't really count then?.......i could also list the ones who came through Murray Park and were stopped in their Rangers careers by numerous failed first team employees at the club....guys like Robert Snodgrass, Kenny McLean, Graeme Smith, Greg Taylor, Barry Robson, Lawrence Shankland, Lewis Ferguson, among so many others, then there's Billy Gilmour and those ones you mention too. Just because they didn't break through here, doesn't mean our Academy didn't or doesn't work. It works and it works very well. Our problem is integrating it with the first team. Using it properly. Said Academy clearly developed excellent young players, international footballers. It wasn't Murray Parks fault first team managers refused to give those kids a chance....that's a failing of the first team set up! 

 

What value did we get from Kent? £7m investment, top wages for 4 years only to walk out on us for nothing with barely a trophy to show for it. He was a monumental loss for the club. A perfect example of how NOT to operate! 

 

Charlie Miller is an example i have used for every single team i've coached and boys i've scouted for. He's proof the wee scheme boy can make it in the game and can make it in the game at a club the size of Rangers. 

 

We've been a stepping stone club since the turn of the millennium. That's exactly who we are. 👍

C'mon, why don't you include Ian Durrant then, how about Derek Johnstone or John Greig? I mean if you're counting players from 20 years ago why not just make it 50 years and we can close the discussion now? Or, we can talk about the here and now, where we actually are as a club and deal with reality? 

If they don't break through to our first team then really, what's the point? Listing players the club released as an example of how good our youth system is seems a self defeating argument. The fact that Greg Taylor is a first choice full back for Celtic is not the ringing endorsement for the Rangers 'Academy' that you seem to think it is. Look, I'll be delighted if McCausland, Rice and King, or any of our current youths, go on and establish themselves as first team regulars, I'll gladly recant my criticism. I'm sceptical, but we'll see. 

Ryan Kent played 140 games for Rangers, that's a decent return for any player who was 19 when they joined us. Did we overpay for him, probably, and should we have sold him a couple of seasons ago, definitely. Same with Morelos and Kamara. But all 3 of those players contributed more to our first team than every Academy player put together over the last 5 seasons. Let Motherwell or Hibs or Charlton or whoever develop them into first team players, then we should sign them young, offer them the chance to play in front of 50,000, European football, the chance of medals and fame before moving to a wealthier club in a wealthier league. From the outside that looks to be a much better 'business model' for the club. 

It's interesting that Celtic had a short period where they developed McGregor, Forrest, Christie and Tierney, successfully integrating them into their first team. The period coincided with us being out of the league. Without us the challenge to win the SPFL was much easier, Celtic could afford to drop points, take some chances on youth and know it wouldn't really matter come title time. Since our return they've not developed anyone of note. I don't think that's coincidence. 

I've been having this same conversation on here for a long time. I'd love Rangers to be able to spot, nurture and produce our own players, but unfortunately all the available evidence says we haven't and can't.

1 hour ago, SykseyBear said:

Nothing funny about it, they are good solid stable sides, that's why they are able to blood kids and still be relatively successful. 

 

Liverpool got away with not winning a league title for 30 years. Man Utd 10 years. Arsenal more. These clubs might be massive but they don't have anywhere near the same pressure as us in terms of must win. They don't have to win. They are happy with just competing. With top 4. With the odd trophy every 5 years or so. We will never be like that. 

 

 Charlie is a family friend, i know exactly what happened with him at Rangers, i didn't say he fulfilled his potential. 

 

Lowry doesn't have a chance, he won't make it hear, he will never be good enough. He lacks things that cannot be coached on the training pitch. 

 

Worked out well for Falkirk i guess.....🙄

Family friend or not he's hardly a poster boy for our youth set up or someone I'd be holding up as an example to our current young players. 

Are you really comparing Rangers to Falkirk? 

We've really only got Nathan Paterson to show for years of work and millions invested. Gilmour left the second he could, as did Mebude and Rory Wilson earning us very little in reality. More importantly we've really only got Leon King as a recognised first team squad player and he's what, fifth choice now? 

I've unhappily come to the conclusion that we'd be better off focusing our energy and money on finding players in the 18 to 21 age group. Bassey, Aribo, Kent, Morelos have provided far better value for us, I think Lewis Ferguson, Doig and Hickey could have done similar too. Hopefully Raskin will prove a good player for us and command a decent fee in the future. If we accept that we're now a stepping stone club, a tier below much wealthier leagues, then those are the kind of players we should focus on. 

19 hours ago, SykseyBear said:

We aren't in a position to throw kids into the team right now unfortunately. We aren't strong enough. The toxicity around the club the last few years would ruin them. Look how it hindered King under Gio. Once we are strong enough, and able, to "carry" a few youth players i am absolutely sure the manager will throw them in. Right now wee Bailey Rice has about 7 highly paid experienced players ahead of him. McAusland has 2 or 3 ahead of him. King has 4 or 5. Devine has 2 including the club captain. Cole McKinnon has about 6 or 7 ahead of him. McCrorie has the best goalie we've had since probably Goram ahead of him.  It's a difficult place to make it for a young player. The demand for success and silverware far outweighs the demand or need to blood kids. 

 

What we need is a successful Rangers first and then we can start blooding kids properly. Look at what a top Rangers side done to Barry Ferguson and Charlie Miller. Both of them were sensational young players who played in 2 of our best teams in recent memory surrounded by some of the best players we've ever seen at the club. Neither of them would have made it here under a Beale, Pedro or Ally. Young players need help, and it has to be the correct environment under the right manager.  

 

 

Charlie Miller didn't come close to fulfilling his potential, he was genuinely one of the best players in the world when he was a schoolboy. Barry Ferguson did, but I doubt he would have if Advocaat hadn't taken over when he did and chose to build a side around him. 

Of the players you've mentioned above I suspect only Bailey Rice has a real chance of making it with us. The rest will get some games but I can't see them become first team regulars, I expect they'll move on when their contracts are up. Lowry still has a chance, but his inability to secure a starting berth in a poor Hearts side suggests to me he's still missing that something required to become a top professional. 

We hear the same platitudes about pathways and opportunities trotted out time and again, but I honestly wonder if we should bin our youth set up and simply focus on our first team. Indeed I'd go as far as to say all professional football clubs in this country should.  

I think McKenna will peddle whatever the hierarchy down London Road way tell him. I've never seen much capacity for original thought. 

I gave it to Cantwell, he kept driving us forward and was the one creative spark while on.

It's funny how we all see the games differently. I thought Davies was given a torrid time by Shankland, who constantly got the ball ahead of him, held it up and laid it off while Davies seemed to be a yard behind him. 

Have Celtic banned English and McLaughlin? I didn't know that, very interesting. 

I see the 'flags' story is the lead on the BBC Scotland web page this lunchtime. How it's even 'news' is beyond me, far less the leading story. Who cares what flags they choose to wave. Another bizarre editorial decision. 

1 hour ago, Bluedell said:

I'm hearing Clement has been offered the job. 

That's a big post, Bluedell. I'm going to quote you on the podcast shortly as 'an insider'...

McCausland showed enough in his cameo to retain a starting place ahead of Wright or Lammers. You could replace pretty much every one of the rest if we had anyone to replace them with.  

Sima, a limited player at best but at least kept trying last night and took his goal well. This is a bot like being asked which part of your body you'd like stabbed in first. 

Who else could he play? Roofe probably isn't fit enough to start, everyone else is injured. Cifuentes has been poor recently, Jack must be injured again, then we're into untried boys.