JohnMc

I actually think the support will give a manager, any manager, time if we can see progress. Beale's problem wasn't that we lost to Celtic and PSV, it was the manner of those defeats. The side had regressed, there was no discernible style of play, we were passive when we should have been aggressive, we were naive when we should have been knowledgable. Gerrard got time because we could see progress, despite setbacks. His style of play was attractive, the gap between us and them was closing, the players we had were better and continued to improve. There's more realism in our support than we get credit for. We want to win, we want to win the league, but we'll accept defeat if we beleive the side has given everything and is on the right path. In my opinion.

Muscat's time in Belgium was undoubtedly a failure by any measurement. The only mitigation you can make is Sint Truiden are a funny club. At one time a feeder for Charlton Athletic they're now the play thing of a Japanese entertainment company who have installed Japanese corporate management and signed a plethora of Japanese players. While most Belgians speak good English I doubt Muscat speaks much French or Flemish or went in with much knowledge of the Belgian second tier. It strikes me he got the job because of his exposure in Asia while managing in Oz. Interestingly despite this blip he left Belgium for a pretty impressive spell in Japan. In truth I don't know who I want, but I know who I don't want. Some of the names on that list would drive me to watching Junior football of a weekend.

I'm pleased the board have acted, they should have done it a few weeks ago but at least this wasn't dragged out any longer. With his entire backroom team going too I don't think it was realistic to bring in an interim manager from outside the club. We've two big games coming up this week, having a temporary manager who doesn't know any of our players would simply create more chaos. Davis, while inexperienced at management level, at least knows the bulk of the squad well and will already have informed opinions on each of them. Davis might well prove to be a wonderful manager but I suspect this job has come to soon for him and that it is indeed a temporary appointment. If he excels in the coming weeks there might be a clamour for him to get the job until the end of the season, but I'll need some convincing that's wise. Davis was a wonderful player, my favourite of the 21st century, there's very little he's not achieved as a player, so he can speak with authority and should command respect in the dressing room. I'm happy to give him my full backing. I'm a little surprised at Rae coming in as his assistant. Do they know each other well? They didn't play together as far as I can tell. Rae's coaching career isn't stellar, it strikes me he's available, knows the club and won't cost too much. He does feel like an interim appointment by the club rather than who Davis asked for. I've no idea who I want as the permanent manager. I've seen various names bandied about, many of who I've never heard of and so can offer no opinion on. That there isn't a stand out candidate means whoever comes in will need to win over at least a section of the support. There's not an obvious Scottish manager, surely our first consideration. McInnes burnt his bridges last time, Martindale has to much baggage, the Aberdeen manager is inexperienced as well as being an ex-Celt and Naismith is also too inexperienced as well as polarising many in our support. Kettlewell is doing OK at Motherwell, but not so well he'd be considered for us. Stephen Robinson is doing well at St. Mirren again this season. He did well at Motherwell too. I can't imagine his is a name that will get many in our support excited, but we'd be remiss not look at his record and knowledge of the league we ultimately need to win. Beyond that I'm just hoping we don't go for someone like Lampard or a big name former English player, hoping lightning will strike twice. There is a big argument to go for experience this time. Rangers job is different from most in football. You're expected to win every match, that's not the case almost anywhere else. Not everyone is able to manage in those circumstances. I saw Brighton got hammered at the weekend, if that happened to Rangers we'd be demanding heads, despite the wonderful things the manager has achieved beforehand.

Nah, we beat them 3-0 at Ibrox last season. Surely someone else has beaten Motherwell at home since then.

I was at that Osasuna match. It rained so hard that night the Clyde Tunnel was closed due to flooding. Funny the things you remember. It feels great to have won, and on balance I think we deserved it. We were disjointed and struggling to find any rhythm in the first 30 minutes or so but from around then onwards we were the better side, I thought. I think we're all agreed that Butland had a very good match, arguably our man of the match. I thought our defence played well, Goldson was immaculate and the other 3 stuck to their task and came out on top more often than not. Still not convinced we're good enough mid to front, yet. Perhaps it'll gel and come good. there were patches of decent football last night, but we still give up possession too easily. Lawrence going off is a blow, hopefully it's nothing serious.

This. They know how important qualifying is, other than that I don't think they care much. It's an organisation focused on making money, and they're good at that to be fair.

I'm old enough to remember when everyone thought Peter Ridsdale was a genius for how he was running Leeds Utd. I mean David Murray was a visionary at one time! Brighton are this season's darlings, it was Leicester City a few seasons ago, it'll be someone else in a few more. There is clearly something in the whole Moneyball, data led, analytical insights driven club structure. Much easier to impose it on a club where there are no expectations than it is on a club where not winning the league is viewed as failure. I'd be surprised if there's a professional club at the top level that's not using data on players, I suppose it's how that data is understood that's the clever bit. I quite enjoy watching a smaller club stick one on the English mega clubs, but this is the guy who bought Union Saint Gilliose in Belgium too. He's not some benevolent owner, he's making money and he'll use any club to do it. I hate the concept of feeder clubs and multi-club ownership, it's as bad as that Super League nonsense he says he's so against.

Even an out of form Rangers should scud this St Johnstone side. They're abject and in terrible form. So are St Johnstone...

Thanks. Agree about Cantwell and Lawrence, even Wright to an extent. Rice and Devine as well as King and possibly Cole McKinnon will probably come in too then.

Is Dowell a long term injury? Only 4 midfielders catches the eye. Can we add young players to this, I seem to remember that was allowed although I might have made that up.

The second a director goes on the record either backing or criticising Beale the story will magnify enormously. Currently there is no story, it's largely discontented fans on forums or social media sounding off. Every PR person worth anything will advise the directors to say nothing, whatever their thoughts are. With no game this weekend there are no press conferences scheduled anyway, so any kind of statement, on or off the record, will simply give oxygen to something that will probably fizzle out naturally in the coming days. Whatever failings our directors might have, they surely understand that. I'd say the lack of comment or briefing suggests they don't want to publicly back Beale, which suggests they're not happy with our start either and know that unless there's a big improvement in the coming games there is only one way this ends. Clearly they've decided to give Beale more time, results will decide how long that is. Personally I'd make the hard decision now, (or 5 days ago) but I can see why they've decided to wait a bit longer. That might yet prove to be the correct decision, we'll see.

While the board have the benefit of seeing what's going on behind the scenes and speaking with the management team and players and so seeing a fuller picture than we do, they're also well aware of supporter sentiment plus are watching the same performances we are. I've no inside information but I'd be astonished if directors haven't discussed it, even informally. They know Beale is under pressure, Beale knows he's under pressure. I doubt anything will happen in the coming days, but I do think he's only a couple more poor performances away from the board deciding this can't go on. Beale doesn't have credit in the bank, it would be hard for any board to simply ignore supporter sentiment for an extended period. If Rangers can somehow find form and start winning with some style then Beale will be fine, the challenge the board have is whether they think that scenario is likely.

Gerrard was shown patience, even in the face of a number of disappointing results, because most of the support could see progress. We could see what Rangers were trying to do, we could see improvement on and off the pitch. We'd a style of play most of us enjoyed watching, we'd signings that improved the starting 11 and so after a disappointing result, while there were moans and annoyance, the majority of our support backed Gerrard because we could see what he was building and felt it would come right. The difference now is I can't see what he's trying to build. I don't know what style of play we're nurturing and so far only our keeper looks like a new signing that's improved our starting 11. Whatever faults GvB might have had Colak, Tillman and Lawrence all started their careers well, even Davies looked like a good addition early on. Supporters can be quick to judge and we're prone to extremes of emotion. But, we're not blind at the same time. Our pre season matches were concerning, our defeat to Kilmarnock was a worry, our victories in the league have been welcome, but not without nervousness. We did well against an out of form Servete, then were played off the park, twice, by PSV, a side we bested 12 months ago, then turned in a very poor performance, at home, against as weak a Celtic side as we've faced in 3 seasons. Seriously, can you point to something that mitigates Beale, something that points to better times to come?

The Kevin Muscat link is interesting. I've heard and read quite a few dismiss him fairly quickly. One criticism seems to be that 'we'd be copying them'. If it works, who cares? That aside there is some truth in that he's an Australian who has managed in Melbourne and is now managing Yokohama in Japan, very similar to the current manager of Spurs. He won the league with Melbourne and has now won it in Japan. Muscat has also been an assistant coach for the Australian national side, under the management of the current Spurs coach. So there are clearly parallels. Muscat also had an unsuccessful spell managing in Belgium for a side I'd never heard of. It seems clear that the standard of Japanese domestic football is higher than in Scotland. When you add in the huge cultural differences he must be experiencing then I think it's fair to praise what Muscat has achieved there. He's not some rookie, he's managed 3 club sides, winning the league with 2 of them. Another thing is Yokohama are part owned by the City Group, who own a plethora of clubs around the world, most famously Man City. I personally hate what they're doing to football, I'd outlaw multi club ownership and sports washing, but I'm not in charge so it is what it is. My personal animosity apart, City do seem to know what they're doing. Having billions at your disposable certainly helps you build a good infrastructure, and it seems they not only look for players, but also coaches too. Either way they seem to rate Muscat. His time at Rangers didn't ingratiate him to most of our support. He was a limited player at best, with a reputation for thuggery, he passed through fairly quickly without making much of an impression on me. Being a limited player has no bearing on whether you might be a good coach of course. So in his credit column he does have some experience of the club and the league. I've no clue if the link with Muscat is real or not, but it's not a ridiculous link. I suspect he's within our budget, as an Australian he'd have little trouble settling here, he knows the club and what's expected and he might view us as a good next step in his career.

I was speaking with friends earlier about the Amazon documentary on Manchester City that came out a couple of years ago. I watched it as I curious to know more about Guardiola. I'd expected lots of talk about overlapping, inverted false 9s and venn diagrams of spacial awareness and xG. In actual fact you discovered that 'Pep' is actually a bundle enthusiasm and energy who, when speaking with players, spends most of his time psyching them up and getting the side wound up to go out and play. It was a slightly more sophisticated version of 'get stuck right into them from the first whistle, lads'. Now I'm sure there's a lot of false 9s and inverted overlaps and all that stuff going on in training but the sheer simplicity of what Guardiola does was a surprise but afterwards I realised that's what all successful managers do, they fill their players with belief and desire. It's a room of young men full of testosterone, there's no need to make it complicated. I've been thinking about it this week. I wonder if we underestimated how important Gerrard's simple communication was. Everyone said Beale was the brain, and that might be so, but when Gerrard said "let's go" on his unveiling as our manager we all responded positively. Gerrard is passion and desire, as a player someone other players admired and listened too. Beale seems a much more considered and thoughtful person, but does he instil passion in our players? I suspect Gerrard's final words in the dressing room carried more weight than Beale's do now. The great Brian Clough, who won titles with Derby and Nottingham Forest as well as two European Cups had a well documented poor spell at Leeds Utd in between those two jobs. What's often overlooked in his time at Leeds is his long time assistant, Peter Taylor, didn't go to Leeds with him. Clough's 'magic' didn't work at Leeds. He didn't win over the dressing room and he left after only a few months. At Forest he was once again joined by Taylor and the rest is history. Clough famously rarely visited the training ground, he'd watch training but never took part. His thinking was if his players heard his voice too much they would stop hearing what he said. Yet for all his genius, without Taylor, Clough's style didn't work. When him and Taylor fell out and Taylor left Forest they went into a terminal decline that ended with relegation. Having watched us this season, not just Wednesday and yesterday, I worry we've given Peter Taylor our manager's job. Our performances have lacked cohesion and style, i've no idea what formation and type of football we're meant to be playing. Yesterday we seemed to be playing a long ball to the big lad up front, I've not seen that tactic for over 20 years, I certainly didn't expect to see it yesterday. We had a speed merchant in decent form on one wing and never gave him the ball. They'd two rookie centre halves and we never thought of putting Matondo through the middle to see if that might make them drop deeper and create more space for our midfield who were being overrun for most of the first half. When we did make changes we took off the two forwards who both scored, albeit chalked off, and left on the one who looks short of fitness, sharpness and possibly confidence to the disbelief of almost the entire support. I'm not one who turns on managers easily. A search of my posts will show I was in favour of persevering with GvB until close to the very end. I was very disappointed when Le Guen left, I felt he should have been backed. But I lost faith in Pedro after the second Old Firm hammering, months before the Progres fiasco. Unfortunately I've lost faith in Beale. I could just about accept the new players struggling to settle and adapt. But both Cantwell and Raskin are shadows of the players we saw last season, what's happened to them? I know it's early in the season, but I feel I've watched this film before and I know how it ends. It's just a question of when and for all concerned it should be sooner rather than later.

I'm surprised at the confidence some are showing. Having watched us this season it's not something I currently share.

It's almost certainly true, I believe him. I mean during his time at their club it was owned by Fergus McCann and then Dermot Desmond and both are known to be subservient to authority and would have shied away from confrontation with referees or the Scottish League. He also played under Tommy Burns and Martin O'Neill and both would have told 'Stubbsy' to put it behind him and concentrate on the match, the ref's decision is final. Plus this is regularly mentioned in the many paranoid Masonic collusion books, talks and films that seem to come out every year. His team mates at the time are forever speaking about it on radio too. Plus it's not like he's an irrelevant walloper struggling to find any kind of gainful employment. Let me be the first to call for the return of all medal and trophies we've won, I can't sleep now knowing about this injustice.

I agree to an extent. It's certainly not the first time I've watched us be humbled in Europe and I doubt it'll be the last. It was our European performances that kept criticism of Gerrard at bay as he tried to figure out how to overhaul Celtic. We could see what he was trying to do. Then, when Celtic changed manager we were ready to take advantage. I've no clue what we were trying to do last night. Other than release Matondo and use his pace on the left wing, something we failed to do with any consistency, I don't know what our game plan was. Our fullbacks were once again forced to defend deep, like they were in the first leg, somehow we failed to anticipate this. Their wide men had the freedom of the park. So when I say I don't know where this leaves us I mean in terms of a playing style and obvious tactics. Yip, if we get a result on Sunday most will forget this match quickly, and I agree the league is this season's priority. But to do both of those we need to play so much better than we did last night. That's my concern.

While it's the defence that will take most of the criticism our midfield and attack were horrific for long periods last night. This season we've lost the art of retaining possession. We just give it up after around 3 passes, it's like watching Rangers from pre-Gerrard days. I remember so well the goal against Benfica when we passed the ball from almost our own goal line, quick, accurate passing to Rangers players who knew where their team mates were and were moving to make the angles and options for the pass. This season that's gone, completely. Our midfield and attack offer no options to our defenders so we either go long where our attack are unable win a ball in the air or hold it up, or we do attempt a pass into midfield and it breaks down. You'll get away with that against Morton or Ross County but not PSV, or Celtic. Dessers continues to look like a guy who someone brings along to your weekly 5s who apparently used to play Junior but these days just talks a good game. With every passing week I miss Morelos more and more. Colak was limited but at least he could score. Cantwell is a shadow of the player of last season, Raskin and Cifuentes looked so far out of their depth last night it was almost cruel, neither an improvement on Davis and Kamara. Unfortunately I find myself wondering if it really was the players at fault, or does the blame lie with the manager. We were out thought and out fought last night. It was crystal clear after 20 minutes we were being overrun in midfield and yet we made no changes. Even at half time, when you expect a response we got the opposite. In the end players carry out the instructions given to them, so you have to question just what they were. PSV deserved their victory, but I don't share this belief they're a Champion's League level side. They'll be cannon fodder and don't be surprised to see them in the Europa after Christmas. We made them look good last night. I'm not sure where this leaves us. If it wasn't for our right back I don't know if we'd ever score, for some reason this side has regressed from May.

That's an interesting observation. I've been surprised at how slow Dessers and Danilo look, Lammers is tall but doesn't look quick either. Sima looks fast, I'll give you that one. Perhaps as they get fitter they'll be quick over the first few yards.

I take it there's no problem with us actually getting to Holland, with this flight disruption?

It can work in terms of increasing his value. If he can play a successful season in English League 1 for example that makes him more sellable for the club, particularly if the feeling is he's not going to make our first team. The same applies with Lowry. If he has a decent season with Hearts, we might still decide to sell him next summer, but he's got more value to us with 30 odd SPFL first team games under his belt. I think we also have a duty of care with young players. It's a short career, if they're not good enough for our first team then this at least allows them to begin building a career elsewhere. Lewis Mayo is a recent example. His loan spells allowed him to gain experience and he's now a regular with Killie. That's a decent standard for a player of his age, if he can keep progressing then a move to a bigger SPFL club or even an English Championship club is a possibility, I'd hope we have a sell-on percentage or similar in place with Kilmarnock.

I'm not sure it makes much difference to TV contracts. I take your point about atmosphere but the TV companies care about viewers, so in some ways no away fans probably suits them. The simple truth is every Rangers/Celtic match is on TV now, so supporters can see it. It's not like my formative days when if you wanted to watch it you had to attend. I feel sorry for the completist Rangers supporter who attends every match, but I can't see any argument for allowing Celtic support the entire Broomloan these days. If they have genuine safety concerns, and I'm not sure they do, then it's police Scotland they want to speak with.

He wasn't a fictional character, William 'Bill The Butcher' Poole was an actual person and a New York gang leader. It was Daniel Day Lewis's image they used from the Scorcese film, but to be fair they'd be hard pushed to find a photo of the real guy, and if they had we'd have spent 5 pages of this thread wondering who the hell was the guy on the UB banner.

I'd never heard of the St Bartholomew's Day massacre until now. Liberté, égalité, fraternité indeed.