CammyF

1 minute ago, Gonzo79 said:

Dunno.  Maybe Diamonde, Souttar and Danilo as the spine.

 

I actually think Butland is a bit overrated. 

So we agree we have a massive rebuilding challange ahead. How it's funded is a major concern / question as our sellable assets are at a bare minimum.

Whilst Butland may be over-rated he'd get us a decent fee / profit but other than a Saudi club buying Tav, we're not getting much from player "trading".

We are obliged to pay £4M for Diomonde so that maybe a significant chunk of our transfer budget.

I'd look at getting Sima and Cortes back on loan as I don't think we'll be able to afford to buy them this close-season (unless we win the league). 

1 minute ago, RANGERRAB said:

If Butland goes we will have a problem. 

We will, but how else can we fund the required changes? Nobody else will command a decent transfer fee. If we don't win the league, we will struggle to make the CL so we need to generate funds somehow. 

11 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I said it would help things along.  Nothing about forcing.  

 

No player has a 'must start' clause in their contract.  We might well be stuck with them but we can still find better options and play them instead. 

 

Their age, performances, continual failings etc.  

So given the above criteria, who deserves to stay? Who do does the manager build his squad around? 

Who, over the last 2-3 years have shown the required level of performance and "acceptable" failings to suggest they are the correct players to turn us from losers into winners? 

2 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

All I'm saying is I've seen enough of certain players.  Our opinions don't matter a jot but Clement's will matter a lot.  

 

If he wants to stick with perennial losers, he'll go the same way as GvB and Beale.

No, you were saying benching them would force them to move on.

They aren't good enough, but neither are the vast majority of our players, but we are stuck with most of them unless we can find buyers. 

By definition, any player who has been here for 2 or 3 seasons (or more) are perennial losers, so what sets Tav, Goldson and Lundstram apart from the rest? 

11 minutes ago, Graeme Ro55 said:

FFS yes I'm serious. Goldson, Tav and Souttar are garbage. 

But there are varying degrees of garbage and Leon King is several degrees worse than those you mentioned (and isn't a right back or midfield player). 

Unfortunately, our "youth" system isn't going to be our saviour any time in the near to mid-term

We'll continue to play second fiddle to Celtic as long as we have inferior players, inferior player trading model and inferior profit margin. 

Whilst they have regressed on the park which allowed us to briefly dream of being champions, they are miles ahead of us in all things that matter. 

16 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

Most professional footballers want to start and play matches.  

Aye for half their wages - dream on. 

5 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I'd be telling Tav and Goldson that if they want to stick around they'll have to get used to sitting on the bench.  Might help move things along.

And how's that gonna help move things along? They'll still get paid for sitting on the bench which is actually a worse situation for us. Neither will take a pay-cut to move away.  

Just now, Scott7 said:

Never in six million years.

There are apparently two Saudi clubs willing to pay this fee for Tav. However, Tav is reluctant to uproot his family. Time will tell. 

2 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

These players have a lot to answer for. The manager does too.  The defense have got away with a lot this season but not in the last two games. They are rank rotten.  The 2 man midfield isn't working and needs to change.  Why is he playing Dowell?  He is worse than a man short and Lunstram has returned to type.   If Roofe is fit why hasn't he been playing?  It all imploded today and the only surprise is it didn't happen earlier.  It is like watching a Beale or Gio team.

Roofe isn't match fit, as he demonstrated in his cameo today. He hardly moved and contributed nothing. 

A fit and firing Roofe would be welcome, but it looks like he is broken and thankfully will move on in the summer.

Clement is showing the same reluctance to learn from his mistakes as his predecessors did. 

17 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

People hoping we can replace Tav and Goldson are hoping it can be done during the Summer transfer window.  

 

Clement can only work with what he's got for the time being.

 

The last couple of fixtures have shown the same old faults and that's why a lot of us are a bit frustrated - these are not new things for several first team players.  

But the issue is, both are under contract. If they aren't playing, they need to be off the wage bill. 

Two ways that happens, someone buys them, or we pay them off. Can't see either scenario panning out unless the Tav to Saudi rumours are true.

If we don't win the league, the transfer budget will be minimal and only topped up by selling players. 

£6M for Tav if the Saudi rumours develop into firm bids, couple of million for Ridvan to Turkey, same with Hagi and Butland will add another £6-£8M (no way we'll get more for him). So that's another circa £15M and some wages freed up when you add in the out of contract players. 

4 minutes ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

That’s why koppen and his team have been recruited at great expense, time for them to earn their wages.

Won't make any difference in the title run in. 

Their biggest challange is to move players on.

7 minutes ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

Blame is not what I’m looking at, I’m saying we needed someone who would score goals. We brought in Silva. Celtic brought in Norwich’s 3rd choice striker. Who has had the biggest impact? I think it’s clear.

 

But it’s not about blame, we had a need, if we couldn’t fill it then fine. If certain ppl at the club didn’t think we had that need then that is a problem.

Silva was brought in to score goals, and was a player our management / footballing team knew and assumed trusted. It hasn't worked out, mainly due to Clement playing Silva wide more often than not. 

Sima and Dessers have decent numbers for the season, Sima's injury derailed his season and same.can be said for Danilo. 

4 minutes ago, Graeme Ro55 said:

I cannot see that happening Compo

It could happen, but what options are available? 

Sterling for Tav is the most obvious but many think Sterling is better deployed in midfield. So if not Sterling, who plays right back?

The options to replace Goldson (and Souttar) are Balogun, Davies or King. Neither of those 3 have shown anything to suggest they'd improve our defence.

At left back, Borna has checked out, Yilmaz appears to still be injured (again), so that leaves Yfeko.

Lundstrum has carried our midfield for the majority of the season but is struggling at the moment. It appears that Clement doesn't rate Raskin. Jack is permanently injured, Diomande is currently injured and Sterling is filling in for the entire back four 😀

Whilst we have a huge squad on paper, it's stretched due to injuries and loss of form.

Reading the thread it would appear that we are in agreement that we have defenders who can't defend, midfielders who can't midfield and strikers who can't strike and I'd argue that recently we have a keeper who can't keep and a manager who can't manage.......But apart from that, we're fine......

And to think a few short weeks ago we were in Europe, in pole position in the league and looking forward to a treble. 

1 minute ago, weebluedevil said:

I don't think we need to rebuild the entire squad and it's not just about transfer fees, it's also about wages, we'll be freeing up a good chuck with players leaving at the end of their contract - Jack, Barisic, Roofe, as well as loan players we may want not keep or be able afford, Silva, Sima, Cortes. Anyway, it's the board's problem, we don't know what appetite or capability they have to back Clement in the summer.

 

Otherwise, then, let's forget about league titles and European runs for the foreseeable and develop our youngsters. What do you want people to say? 

 

 

I didn't say we needed to rebuild the entire squad but I think we do.

It's been said by a few we need to replace Tav, Goldson and Lundstram as a matter of urgency. Only one is out of contract in the summer. So how do we get rid or Tav and Goldson? 

If nobody wants to buy them, can we afford to have two of our highest earners warming the bench? We certainly can't afford to "pay them off" .

The situation we are currently in is a direct result of us standing still after winning 55. It appears to be a heavy price to pay. 

We have won only 2 of our last 7 games - honeymoon period is well and truly over. Hardly the form of a team fighting for a league title.

1 minute ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

You’ve answered your own question 

So the manager is to blame as he didn't bring in the correct loan players? 

3 minutes ago, Scott7 said:

Surely some hard-up Sheikh with a football club would pay £500,000 for the pair. Good bargain.

They might, but that doesn't help us replace them. 

1 minute ago, Gonzo79 said:

And don't forget their record in derby matches.  

This argument baffles me - it's a deflection away from what the real issue is. All OF defeats and lack off success is down to a select few players? Or is it a collective failure? 

10 minutes ago, PoohBear said:

The problem is that successive managers haven't even tried to replace these players, they have continued to build a team around them. Some of them have been at the club for nearly 10 years with one league title to show for it.

But we have- Sterling, Diomande, Raskin, Yimaz Davies, Balogun name a few.

Maybe the players bought to replace them haven't been good enough (I'd argue they haven't been) 

3 minutes ago, PoohBear said:

People will hate it, but we could have brought in Shankland, we would have scored goals. Players like Silva are a waste of time, but hopefully Clement has learned that. 

He would / might have, but how would we have paid for him? 

We didn't have the money to buy Shankland in January

2 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

Strikers can be loaned too.  

And we got one on loan. 

Just now, Gonzo79 said:

We're talking about next season.

What do you think out transfer budget will be in the summer? Seriously, how much money will Clement have to rebuild the entire defence and forward line? 

2 minutes ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

Yep. Time to cut the net. When the going gets tough these guys go missing.

But who do you replace them with?

Take the back 4 as an example - none of them up to the job. 

Would a back 4 of Sterling, King, Balogun and Yfeko win you the league? 

1 minute ago, Sutton_blows_goats said:

Our xg was 3.65 or so and we scored an og and a pen. Our lacklustre powderpuff forward line has been clear to see for ages, not addressing it ( or addressing it with silva) in Jan is a massive blunder 

The question remains, how could we have addressed it in January when we had no money to spend? 

We brought in loans, some with options / obligations to buy in the summer.