RiverBear7

I agree with you. I disagreed with the way you framed the blog that you posted before rather than the sentiment behind it. But I think you go too far in portraying unionism as inherently reactionary (I may be putting words in your mouth but that's the way it comes across). In Robinson's hands it is, of course, but he doesn't own 'Britishness'. I don't consider myself the same species as him so naturally it's disappointing to see him in the shirt but there's little we can do about that.

Happy to discuss it with you though. This is all i'm after, a bit of self-reflection. That blog article was written in one sitting so isn't by any means perfect, and i'm happy for people to disagree with it as long as it's in a civilised way.

I'm not a Unionist, so perhaps the way I talk about it isn't always that complimentary, though I would say in my defence that you are slightly putting words in my mouth. Saying that, I understand why it might come across that way.

I genuinely don't believe there is anything wrong with Unionism. It's when it become a more extreme form of 'Loyalism' that it becomes dangerous for me.

There's some absolute bell ends who have attached themselves to Rangers over the years. They know barely a thing about the team and never go near a game. Robinson is the latest of these. He can go fuck himself but we can't stop him buying a shirt, unfortunately. Probably subsiding Sports Direct whilst the rest of us were boycotting it.

This may surprise my fellow fans here to see me say this, but really don't be afraid of coming to a game. Most fans either don't care about the politics, or have a diverse range of views.

A minority of bigots have hijacked our image though, that is for sure. I just wish the majority would be tougher on them.

We can't stop people wearing Rangers tops and I have no idea who he supports. To be honest our singing today gave me more concern andcould have been 500 Tommy Robinsons. Totally disappointing. Even the Cordoso song has become a hate the IRA tune.

I'm guessing Rangers aren't his first club (though as I say, unfortunately, I found a clip of him calling himself a 'lifelong Rangers fan' from years ago, but yes you're right, the singing to day was a problem in itself.

I think his problems were more with Celtic. Had Aberdeen been their big rivals he'd have wore an Aberdeen top.

As I said before, this was my initial hope. A wee google has shown me to a video from 2011 though when he says he's a lifelong Rangers fan. I don't know how strong his fandom is to be fair, and it may be more an anti-Celtic thing, but it still rubs me up the wrong way.

Robinson is not and never has been a Rangers fan. He saw an opportunity to get some free publicity and make make money at the same time, the tims obliged him.

This was my initial thought, and hope. Though when I looked up about it, I heard he is a Rangers fan.

This is a case where I would be really happy to be proven wrong though.

Well, it certainly dominates your contributions to the forum.

 

What chance do we have with all of your tireless efforts?

True, though I do post about other things too. It is simply what is at the forefront of my mind right now.

There are hundreds of other football teams you could support petal. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Go find another one...........

Thankfully, it's not up to you who I support.

Ok River "Bear"??

Perhaps you need to find a "new" team.

Pathetic shit stirring at it's worst..........

Look it's great that we can talk here about positive things. There is lots to talk about, and I try to here too, but we can't just ignore this stuff.

You don't just change the club you support, or at least you shouldn't. I never will, but I will fight for it to be better, which is what i'm doing.

Sometimes the shit needs to be stirred, or we'll all drown in it.

I hope you also like unhealthy disagreements because I think, given your modus operandi, you will find plenty.

 

Why would he not feel comfortable in any shirt? It's a really stupid question. We can't stop people supporting Rangers.

I admitted we can't stop people supporting Rangers, neither would I want to. My point was, I think there's a reason he likes Rangers (to be explicit, the bigoted minority that dominate our image), and I think that is something that should trouble us.

By the way, I was just thinking, if this should be on another page like the Bluenose Lounge, i'm happy to move it.

Hi All,

Not been a huge amount going on so I haven't been on much, though very pleased with today's result!

Unfortunately though, it has been kinda marred for me by finding out that Tommy Robinson is a Rangers fan and wears his shirt around proudly.

This is clearly something I care about, and seen as it's a recent news item, I hope you realise i'm not trying to annoy people with this, and rather that it's something I care about.

No long article or anything here, my response is very simple. We can't stop anyone from wearing the shirt, but the fact that someone with the bigoted views of Tommy Robinson would choose to support Rangers is troubling to me.

I would like to think most if not all of you aren't EDL/SDL supporters, and are as sickened as I was to see this guy wearing our shirt.

I think we have to ask ourselves why he feels comfortable in our shirt. I would also like a club statement to distance ourselves from him.

Remember, there's nothing wrong with some healthy disagreement and self-reflection, so I hope you aren't too harsh on me for raising this.

Anyway, below is a link to the image:

https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1627780/tommy-robinson-rangers.jpg

Really nice to hear. Genuinely always had a bit of soft spot for Shef Weds sue to their unusual name/founding history

Can't read too much in to friendlies, especially ones behind closed doors, but that's two good results against quality opposition.

The club only react to it if an outside body take action first.

I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean?

You don't reach my age without knowing "some" Celtic fans. Yes, I know many. Some are members of my family too.

It's funny though that your concern is with the actions of Rangers fans. I've seen you say umpteen times on this thread that you don't want to talk about Celtic, yet someone pointing out the widespread support over there for the IRA hence terrorism has you take up that debate.

I'll repeat - away over to Kiddyfiddler Street or the tramp beggar John James blog. He's another one in your image.

Ok, so in answer to your response: are these Celtic fans you know terrorist sympathisers? Where do you get the idea that they're "primarily in support of terrorism"?

The majority of responses here are just criticising Celtic, so while i'm not here to talk about them, it's kind of hard to avoid.

Definitely fishy isn't it? Especially at this time when we have so much change to discuss we have this coming in here with nothing to talk about aside from what to me is utter waffle. I still think attention beggar. At best.

 

It goes without saying what at worst might be but it's significant that so many of us smelled the worst scenario from the get go and seemingly many still do.

For the record, i've enjoyed discussing other topics here. I'm glad I joined. I'm not stopping you from discussing other things on other posts, am I?

Therein is the rub - the only folk I ever hear say that the club is so heavily associated with the . are those who only visit Ibrox when the paedos are playing an away match there.

Some Rangers fans have an Orange bent. Many sellik fans support the IRA. Where in your blog is there any reference to Celtic being primarily in support of terrorism ?

If they're the only people you've heard say it, you must only have a narrow group of people you know - I doubt many of them are Celtic fans too.

As i've repeated again and again, I recognise that the extreme Celtic fans have very troubling views too, but they aren't my club - I don't care how they're perceived. All to often, we defend ourselves by attacking Celtic. Fine, but then we never address our own problems and evolve.

Also, if you think Celtic either as a club or as a fanbase primarily support terrorism, you're bonkers. Do you know many Celtic fans? I take it you don't have the luxury of ONLY knowing bluenoses? I happen to think that the Irish stuff is largely just nonsense.

I never said they are bad too, so there you are putting words in that were not said. Our supporters in general are not bad. While we do have a dark side to our support it is very minimal and certainly no where near as bad as the east side terrorist supporters. Yes I do dislike the add-ons to our songs and some of the things you do say can be better.

Motherwell supporters on the pitch standing inviting us to a fight. When have we done that? Hibs supporters attacking our players. Again when have we done that? I would say Ibrox is one of the safest grounds to go to.

I should say, I wasn't directly quoting you there and certainly didn't intend to. Apologies if it came across that way. I was more referring to a general approach I thought you took where while we are talking about issues with Rangers fans, you responded by talking about Celtic's fans. My point is - I don't care what they do in this context. If you admit there is a dark side to our supporters, that is what we should care about. If they're as bad as you say (and I agree with you to a large extent), the better we are, the more they will be exposed.

Same thing with Motherwell, Hibs etc.

Well you and I and everyone but him are obviously in a bubble. Right? Plain and simple.

Let's put it another way. Yes, I have never seen anything so extreme at Ibrox during games, no.

But I have seen the SDL on match day, I have seen footage of Rangers fans singing the Famine song and other sectarian songs both in the stands and away from the ground, I have been personally told that i'm not welcome at Ibrox because I believe in Scottish Independence, and so on, and so on. It's nonsense to think that there's not bad on both sides.

I skirted over this thread a few days ago and didn't pay it any attention. Then I saw it went on for a few pages so realised there must be more to it. I found the link in the o.p.

Just a couple of points - I've followed Rangers for around 60 years. I'm not and never have been Orange.

Why does the poster take all that time and trouble to talk about Rangers and the . ? Why is it so important to him ?

When the o.p. talks about " the bigots who control the image of the club, and the ordinary, diverse fans you speak of, who I know exist (because of course they do) deserve to be better represented " maybe he should take a look across the other side of the city because no matter what the media say, that is where the REAL bigots, and at a fairy high level amongst their supporter reps too are based.

Believing in a culture is one thing. Openly supporting religious terrorists is another.

In short, o.p. I don't believe you. Kiddyfiddler Street is only a Google search away.

I'm sure we won't agree on everything - perhaps anything - but thanks for taking the time to read. All I want really is a conversation.

The OO is not at all important to me in itself. My only close experience of it - as the article states - is with a young boy I used to work with who went on marches, and while I recognised positive aspects of his place there, I also saw some bigoted views being passed on to him as a result. It's important to me also because - whether we like it or not, it's associated with our club.

The second point I think doesn't really matter, not to let Celtic off the hook, but as i've said before - i'm not talking about Celtic here. All too easily we are faced with realities about our club and we instantly point the finger at the other team or the press rather than really look at ourselves.

So going back to my comment you quoted. You say you're not an Orangeman - are you happy that the club is so heavily associated with them? with some of the things they do/say?

When have you ever seen a paramilitary banner being raised at Ibrox? When have you ever seen effigies of Celtic players hanging from the stand. When have you heard of referee's having their windows smashed by Rangers supporters? If your opinion is that their support is not worse than ours then you walk about with your eyes shut.

Again, as i've continually said, I have the opposite of love for Celtic, but saying 'they're bad too' is no defense.

To add a bit extra though, of course some of their stuff is terrible, you'll get no arguments from me, but it's the same for them. It's a minority with loud voices while the majority stick their head in the sand. I don't know who is worse - I don't think there's a definitive way of measuring who is worse. It's always struck me that Rangers and Celtic are different sides of the same coin.

But again. Who cares about Celtic. I'm talking about Rangers.

You're the one who is missing the point. They're all illustrating to you that this 'perception' exists only in your head fed to you by an anti Rangers media section you're actually assisting in perpetuating it.

 

And again in my opinion it's nothing but attention begging in a pre season where we have installed a new manager and virtually an entirely new team and at this crucial time you come along with this bizarre waffle.

If you think i'm the only who recognises this perception about the club, you're in a bubble, plain and simple.

Again, while I am excited to talk about the club with fellow fans, I don't crave your attention. I wrote an article and wanted to discuss it with fellow fans. I'm enjoying most of that discussion because I think it's an important one.

I don't get the last point, like me discussing a topic like this "at this crucial time" is the least bit damaging to the club. As the article states, the specific things that brought me to write the article are recent incidents from the OO walks this year as well as discussions with friends (both fan and non fan)

It's interesting to note that we're 8 pages into the thread and the only person to make abusive comments about a religious organisation is the OP. Who is the intolerant bigot?

Quote me, please.

Bluedell edit - "loony Orangemen"

That's all crap. You're making bland statements and not backing them up. My supporters club has 3 Asians and one gay guy. Nobody cared. The RST has had senior office bearers who were male, female, left wing socialists, right wingers, trade unionists, SNP supporters etc. Very much like the make up of this forum.

 

You're wanting to shove your own political views on the support.

 

We are welcoming. We are inclusive. You should stop misrepresenting us and claiming that we're equally as bad as Celtic. We do have our issues but we're nowhere as bad as the terrorist loving, IRA supporting bigots that follow Celtic.

I am certainly very passionate about the issues, but i'm not trying to force anything on the club or the support. The whole point is that I don't give a shit what you believe (unless it is of a bigoted nature). In fact, the article is about the idea that it's the bigots who control the image of the club, and the ordinary, diverse fans you speak of, who I know exist (because of course they do) deserve to be better represented.

Of course there are some fans for different backgrounds - perhaps many, but that doesn't change what I see from many others, who don't feel able to join in. I don't see what's so bad about saying we could try a little harder to make the welcoming reality more obvious.

As i've continually said, I have the opposite of love for Celtic, but saying 'they're bad too' is no defense. We should strive to be better than them in every regard, on and of the pitch

One of the biggest Rangers fans I know is Asian. The Singhs are very high profile Rangers fans. Where is the image that Ibrox isn't welcoming to foreigners coming from? The press you say? There seems to be a pattern forming here. And here you are on a forum perpetuating this myth.

That's great about your Asian pal. I'm happy to hear anyone is a Rangers fan.

Yes I said the media plays a role, but you've missed the point.

I don't know exactly where the perception comes from - the crucial point it that it exists.

If you think Ibrox is welcoming to all Rangers fans, great, I agree, but of course we think that. There are people out there - potential Rangers fans - who think they aren't welcome to support the team because of some aspect of their background. Even if that's not true, that's a perception I am dying to see go away.

It's not enough, for me, to just point the finger at the press, even if they deserve it in most cases - I just think we as fans, and the club, could go above and beyond to make the experience more welcoming