Norris Cole 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Are you and Maineflyer the same person? Funnily enough, there's more than one person that has a different opinion than yours :fish: 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well you've certainly got a double act going on. So is it goodnight from him or goodnight from you...? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well I have to disagree with you, it said absolutely nothing new. Worse, it seeks to deflect us from the real issues at hand. It seeks to make excuses for the unacceptable and to lay the blame everywhere except where it should be. If we cannot face up to this then we will just keep on having days like yesterday. This is not about celtic, it's about Rangers and what's wrong with us. Criticise celtic by all means but please - do not use their problems as an excuse for our own. That's just so much cowardice. Unfortunately not every post on a forum like this brings something new. I do think though, that when there are hyperbolic reactions a dose of realism is a necessary thing: It was a better man than me that said: we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. I'm not saying there are not huge issues at the club. The fact that the we faces these issues in the here and now means they are the most pressing and lead people to make claims that this is the worst Rangers team ever, or the worst Celtic team ever and we should easily be outstripping them (this isn't even the worst Rangers team of the last 3 years, never mind any other era people might wish to use). I, like you, like Craig and like Cal am absolutely fuming at the gutless display at the weekend. But exagerrating the gravity of the situation does not help either. Only when we have a realistic and objective view point of the current situation can we hope to rectify and improve upon it. Yes it is shit. But we there are some positives, if we can hand on them. We have the nucleus of a good team. We need a manger capable of complimenting the players we do have with the right tactics and formations. Smith does not appear to be that man (my debates with yourself where not whether that was the case, but more the again almost extreme view point that there were no positives to be seen). 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Are you and Maineflyer the same person? No - why would you ask. Is it that we both see through you equally easily? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) Being level on points or being 3 points ahead or being 3 points behind in the league is all very well and at the end of the day points win prizes but every so often I'd like Rangers to go out onto the pitch and put on a performance that makes the fans go home happy. At present, WS is totally unable to do that. He's unable to get 3 points at home to ICT, a bottom of the league side when we played them. We are shite, but I think a decent manager would have us playing decent football and not going into games with the tactic "I'd rather play for a draw and get one than play for a win and get beat". We have a good team give or take a few fuckin' diddies but it's the tactics that are bringing us down. I know what I prefer! Look at Newcastle under Keegan 1st time round. They absolutely idolised him for the style of football they played. How many tropheis did they win in their prime, 1? 2? 3? 4? 5? No, a big fat stinking zero! Edited March 16, 2009 by Gazza_8 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 So why do we have a two horse race? So Celtic are as bad as they were in 1990 when they finished 5th? 1991 when they finished 3rd? 1992 when they finished 3rd? 1993 when they finished 3rd? 1994 when they finished 4th? 1995 when they finished 4th? Are we as bad as in 2006 when we finished 3rd? Sorry I really don't get what your aiming at unless it's an unmeasurable subjective viewpoint. We have a two horse race because the other teams in the league have even less resources than the OF. Fact. What is the relevance of your statement in the context of me pointing out that both teams are poor ? Are you saying that, merely because they hold the top two positions that they are not ? Surely an intelligent bloke like yourself calscot is not using such a flawed argument in your defence ? The position in the table does not necessarily reflect the quality of the team nor where it should stand in comparison to its previous teams that may have finished lower in the league. In the SPL we have TEN shit teams and we can't finish as the best of a piss-poor bunch. Was the standard higher in 2006 when we finished 3rd ? Quite possibly. Sure it is subjective but how else do we measure ? Because, for sure, using simple facts like "we are 2nd this year but finished 3rd in 2006" is by no means a good example of whether we are better or worse. It is all relative. I'll deny it, there for the taking by whom? The OF as I have pointed out with evidence, are pretty close and both are well ahead of the rest. They are maybe there for the taking but not by any Scottish club. Their Champions status and position at the top of the SPL proves that. Interesting..... seeing as your initial post was speaking about CELTIC being there for the taking I would have thought it safe to assume my riposte would be talking about RANGERS "taking them". Maybe I should have been clearer. Sorry but they ARE there for the taking. Just because they are champions and just because they are top of the table doesn't change that. It just means that no-one HAS taken them (whatever it means anyway....). If they are not there for the taking then the rest of the SPL just shouldnt bother trying, right ? Do you not get the oxymoron here? You are saying the two BEST teams in the country by a mile are SHIT. It's a subjective viewpoint that is pretty meaningless in the context of the SPL title. Man U and Liverpool may well be shit compared to the Brazilian World Cup team of 1972 but if they are the best teams in the Premiership, what does that matter? Sorry but there is NO oxymoron in there. The two BEST teams can also still be SHIT teams. It really IS that straight forward. It is perhaps meaningless in the context of the SPL title but is certainly no oxymoron. Your statement was whether Celtic were there for the taking. Perhaps you should have been more specific and spelt out that you meant in terms of winning the title. They still are there for the taking, by US. They still are shit. So are we. And sorry, but there was no "comparable" that I gave. I am not trying to compare Man U & Pool to Brazil. Likewise I am not trying to compare Celtic to anyone. They are, simply, a SHIT team. No comparison necessary. Same can be said of us. Again that is subjective, doesn't stand up to scrutiny when you count how many games we win and again, what is the relevance? I was talking in reference to the Celtic games and you really should have understood that as it was part of the same paragraph about Celtic being there for the taking. Taking my statement out of context to defend your own statement is poor. Sure we win a lot of games but against Celtic this season we have, aside from ONE game, tried to "not lose" rather than win. And funnily enough that one game was the one time that we actually beat them. The relevance is straight forward enough, Celtic are there for the taking if you actually TRY to beat them. In the last 2 games we havent tried to beat them (though, admittedly, the game prior to that at Ibrox we were the better of two poor teams - with a 4-4-2 funnily enough.....) Well we are capable of defeating them but it's not because they lost to St Mirren. I repeat that is Schoolboy thinking, the OF and other big teams lose to smaller teams every season. It does not mean a better team than the smaller team can easily beat the top team. It's complete nonsense. Scotland beat France so does that mean everyone better than us should be able to go out and thrash them? Eh ? We should be capable of beating ANY team in Scotland calscot, if St Mirren beat them it should merely be reinforcement of that. How is it schoolboy thinking ? You like to use comparisons and yet when that comparison is made you decide comparables arent worthy ? The sad reality is that we are having to use such poor comparatives because we have little confidence that we can put a team out to beat Celtic whenever we meet. We have to use a "St Mirren beat them so we can too" mentality to provide positive reinforcement - we should NEVER need that against teams in the SPL. That's just not true. The tactics possibly were to minimise the chances of a loss, but that's what many teams do during a six pointer or a tough, important game. In the last three games they have not played any more positively than us. The game at Ibrox we were the better team, fair enough. But in the last two games we have been far more concerned with not losing to them rather than putting them to the sword. You know, you could be right and that using the terminology of "we try not to lose to them" is not justified but we certainly are not going out to try and take the game to them. In the last 3 games they have also not played any more negatively than us. Maybe but they are still top of the league and bar Rangers, miles ahead of anybody. In a two horse race the ONLY team that matters is Rangers aside from them. The fact that they have dropped points left, right and centre to poorer teams does not add any positivity to what WE have done this season. We are behind a very poor Celtic team. Sugar coat that any way you want but the simple truth remains that Celtic, this season, are a very poor team and yet they find themselves ahead of us...... tells its own story, especially if you look at the squads - I would suggest that we have a stronger squad than them yet we have a manager who has NO IDEA how to utilise it. Further, he spunked money on strikers in pre-season only to then play one up front..... and has to play about 4 players out of position in every single game. That, for this bear, is SHOCKING mismanagement. That's where I agree. At least we agree on something my friend. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well you've certainly got a double act going on. So is it goodnight from him or goodnight from you...? You should be proud of the backslapping thanks you collected for that cheap shot. You now if it wasn't for some of the members you find so hard to tolerate, this forum might turn into one big self-congratulation and you really would be the smartest, most insightful girl on the block. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Only the one request guys, lets keep it respectful. That statement is NOT saying that anyone is being disrespectful but I would like to nip it in the bud before it happens. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Only the one request guys, lets keep it respectful. That statement is NOT saying that anyone is being disrespectful but I would like to nip it in the bud before it happens. Stay cool bud, nothing happening here. New Vanguardbears forum opens in 30 minutes and that's where I'll be found for the next while at least. I guess you'll have to be in charge of the happy children all by yourself. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 6,796 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 That is three games plus injury time that we've failed to score against Celtc - resulting in losing five points and the first domestic trophy - criminal given how poor they are. Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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