Agm and club accounts

[Super_Ally 0]

Still trying to get my head round that one to be honest. Not sure I've ever implied "it was everyone else's fault". Merely trying to apply some rare even-handedness to The Great PLG Debate.

 

A simple "Le Guen was shite" just doesn't cut it for me. We failed to see the bigger picture at the time and it would appear that remains the case with some today.

 

PLG demonstrated more than enough failings in 6 months that are glossed over/ignored/not addressed whilst we seek to scapegoat Barry Ferguson, Kris Boyd, Alex McLeish, the fans and any other number of people.

[Norris Cole 0]

PLG demonstrated more than enough failings in 6 months that are glossed over/ignored/not addressed whilst we seek to scapegoat Barry Ferguson, Kris Boyd, Alex McLeish, the fans and any other number of people.

 

He inherited one of the worst squads in the club's history, a mutinous captain and a pathetically impatient support.

 

As I've said before, I thought Le Guen underestimated what Scottish football was all about, yet I'm confident he would have learned had he been given the time.

 

To our long-term detriment he wasn't.

 

His ideas were always going to be new FFS, that's what the support had demanded for years.

 

I believe Walter Smith set a new club record today. Not in our 137-year history have we failed to score in three consecutive league matches. Is that Le Guen-esque form? Or do we continue to give Walter special treatment?

[Super_Ally 0]

He inherited one of the worst squads in the club's history, a mutinous captain and a pathetically impatient support.

 

As I've said before, I thought Le Guen underestimated what Scottish football was all about, yet I'm confident he would have learned had he been given the time.

 

To our long-term detriment he wasn't.

 

His ideas were always going to be new FFS, that's what the support had demanded for years.

 

I believe Walter Smith set a new club record today. Not in our 137-year history have we failed to score in three consecutive league matches. Is that Le Guen-esque form? Or do we continue to give Walter special treatment?

 

His ideas weren't that new.

 

People talk about fitness under PLG. Yet he wasn't "forward thinking" enough to employ a specialist sports scientist for example.

 

Someone who previously attained unrivalled success tends to get a bit of breathing space yes. What's so unusual about that? PLG did little/nothing to be deserving of time.

 

Players are rightly lambasted for not properly preparing themselves. I.e By applying themselves on the training field. Yet PLG gets off scot-free (a bucket load of unintentional irony in that term) for being one of the most ill prepared employees at the club. Suggests a lack of professionalism there.

 

A lot of parrallel's could be drawn between PLG's errors and those of the current bumbling fool leading the national team.

 

You'll notice earlier in the thread I commended PLG on his class and dignity as a person. But I draw the line when we start blaming everyone else connected with the club for his failure.

 

To draw a footballing parrallel, Mourinho was rightly praised for not being afraid to make changes early in a game if it wasn't working.

 

Also it must not be forgotten that PLG left because he didn't have the stomach to stay and fight. Murray was happy to stand by him against Ferguson if the Frenchman wanted to stay.

[Norris Cole 0]

Someone who previously attained unrivalled success tends to get a bit of breathing space yes. What's so unusual about that? PLG did little/nothing to be deserving of time.

 

That argument just makes no sense to me. What exactly should he have done to be "deserving" of more than six months?

 

His ideas weren't that new. People talk about fitness under PLG. Yet he wasn't "forward thinking" enough to employ a specialist sports scientist for example.

 

Lack of a 'sports scientist' does nothing to explain Ricksen and the Monster Munch clique and their petulant refusal to comply with Le Guen's strict regime. I say strict, but in reality it was 7am starts and no booze-related misdemeanors. Or in other words, the real world.

 

Players are rightly lambasted for not properly preparing themselves. I.e By applying themselves on the training field. Yet PLG gets off scot-free (a bucket load of unintentional irony in that term) for being one of the most ill prepared employees at the club. Suggests a lack of professionalism there.

 

A "lack of professionalism"? I find it astonishing Le Guen can be accused of that given what was going on elsewhere at the club at the time.

 

A lot of parrallel's could be drawn between PLG's errors and those of the current bumbling fool leading the national team.

 

Burley had one good season eight years ago. Since then he has got Ipswich relegated, had eight games at Hearts and taken Southampton to the brink of relegation to the third tier, all before fucking up the good work of Smith and McLeish at the national team. Le Guen won three consecutive French league championships. After leaving Rangers he revived PSG from relegation candidates to title challengers. To compare Le Guen with Burley is ludicrous.

 

You'll notice earlier in the thread I commended PLG on his class and dignity as a person. But I draw the line when we start blaming everyone else connected with the club for his failure.

 

I'll repeat, I think Le Guen underestimated Scottish football. But the convenient airbrushing of all the other mitigating circumstances during that time, and the subsequent deification of Smith, does a disservice to the truth of what was happening at the club.

 

Also it must not be forgotten that PLG left because he didn't have the stomach to stay and fight. Murray was happy to stand by him against Ferguson if the Frenchman wanted to stay.

 

Like I say, mutiny. Your captain refuses to work with you. He has your leading scorer as his minion. You're fucked. Ferguson's antics at Loch Lomond and Boyd's at Murray Park around the same time have shown Le Guen to be in the right. Only the short-sighted would have backed Ferguson. He should have been sacked with immediate effect.

[Super_Ally 0]

That argument just makes no sense to me. What exactly should he have done to be "deserving" of more than six months?

 

I'm making no argument here. I was merely pointing out why your point about Smith was ill thought out. Of course people who have previously built up some sort of good "credit" get a little extra time. People have considered they have earnt it or that there is a better chance of them coming good. I'm not saying the thinking is correct necessarily, but it's easy to understand why people think like that.

 

Lack of a 'sports scientist' does nothing to explain Ricksen and the Monster Munch clique and their petulant refusal to comply with Le Guen's strict regime. I say strict, but in reality it was 7am starts and no booze-related misdemeanors. Or in other words, the real world.

 

You claimed he was forward thinking. I merely provided one example of where he is not.

 

A "lack of professionalism"? I find it astonishing Le Guen can be accused of that given what was going on elsewhere at the club at the time.

 

Whether or not other people were also unprofessional is hardly defence of PLG being negligent of his duties.

 

Burley had one good season eight years ago. Since then he has got Ipswich relegated, had eight games at Hearts and taken Southampton to the brink of relegation to the third tier, all before fucking up the good work of Smith and McLeish at the national team. Le Guen won three consecutive French league championships. After leaving Rangers he revived PSG from relegation candidates to title challengers. To compare Le Guen with Burley is ludicrous.

 

PLG's time at Rangers is similar to Burleys at Scotland is the point I was making. In that context what they have done elsewhere is irrelevant. PLG lost his dressing room, alienated key players and showed very poor man management. He also showed a poor ability to deal with the media. And then there's the results. I think the parallels are clear.

 

I'll repeat, I think Le Guen underestimated Scottish football. But the convenient airbrushing of all the other mitigating circumstances during that time, and the subsequent deification of Smith, does a disservice to the truth of what was happening at the club.

 

I have airbrushed nothing. There were other contributing factors. PLG was ultimately as culpable in his own downfall though. Poor man management, poor media relations, poor results for starters.

 

Like I say, mutiny. Your captain refuses to work with you. He has your leading scorer as his minion. You're fucked. Ferguson's antics at Loch Lomond and Boyd's at Murray Park around the same time have shown Le Guen to be in the right. Only the short-sighted would have backed Ferguson. He should have been sacked with immediate effect.

 

No one was going to back Ferguson. Murray was happy to back PLG if the Frenchman was happy to stay. Before we go on the warpath declaring it was all everyone elses fault lets at least acknowledge the fact that he didn't have the stomach to stay.

[Norris Cole 0]

I'm not sure there's a better example of going round in circles than this.

 

I think Le Guen got a raw deal, you don't. The End.

[craig 5,199]

PLG demonstrated more than enough failings in 6 months that are glossed over/ignored/not addressed whilst we seek to scapegoat Barry Ferguson, Kris Boyd, Alex McLeish, the fans and any other number of people.

 

And we all know that for fact ?

 

Sure, PLG seemed to be shit. But how many of us know that the reason was PLG and not the players ?

 

It seemed that the players also demonstrated enough lack of professionalism that also are glossed over.

 

Maybe I was the only one that witnessed us absolutely hammering Dundee Utd 2-2. Same way that we blame the players for poor performance under WS..... no ?

 

Much as though we gloss over/ignore/dont address the failings of PLG we also are doing the same things in regards to the players under his remit. Yes, the manager needs to instill himself but if he is not being supported by senior players and other members of the club management then his job is under duress immediately.

 

As Frankie says, watch Damned Utd and you MIGHT get a perspective on why PLG failed....... I obviously dont personally know but there is as much chance that this was as much of the reason as PLG being simply a pish manager.

 

He never got the chance - and anyone that believes that 6 months is enough time to instill their will and philosophy on a team is deluded IMO.

 

The manager needs the players to work to his tune, and it was fairly obvious that it want happening under PLG.

[craig 5,199]

I'm not sure there's a better example of going round in circles than this.

 

I think Le Guen got a raw deal, you don't. The End.

 

Couldnt agree more.

 

Results suggested PLG had to go. But it somehow is now convenient to believe that the results are all PLG's fault.

 

We started off that season playing some cracking stuff - anyone that witnessed MOtherwell at Fir Park or Dundee Utd at Ibrox would have seen that. So what caused the fall off in form ? PLG or subordination amongst the players ?

[calscot 0]

Managers often talk empty meaningless dross. It's what they do.

 

As for criticising a foreigner for his pronounciation of a word? That's pathetic at best.

 

I agree with the first statement and saying how we played well while obviously being hammered by a much lower team was more than a wee bit patronising.... Or was it was just me? Walter to me is an expert at stating the obvious but at least somehow there seems some kind of genuine truth there that was just totally missing from the manager I most highly anticipated at the club.

 

So is it really pathetic to expect your manager to be able to pronounce your club's name? After all, my French isn't exactly impressive but I can say "Par�©e sang shzermong" instead of "P�¡riss saintt Jerr-mann" and if that's not quite right I'm willing to be corrected before I make a twat of myself in front of a press conference and pretty much every fan of the club. All he needed to do was write it down as R�©ngers and visualise it a dozen or so times. Doesn't take much more than a humble fool to do that.

 

But if you read my post you will have gathered I suggest that his pronunciation was "symbolic" of his stay at Rangers. This is where I struggle not to sound insulting or pompous or something lately - but do I really have to spell out what that means?

 

I sat expectantly at the feet of a guy whom I thought was a genius, the wisest of the wise, the prophet of all things good at the club I support, the Rangers manager for whom I gave the greatest respect and most deference - and I was rewarded with the words of a fool, the actions of a fool and pretty much the results of no better than a fool. Yet even though he didn't have the slightest stomach for the job, never mind the nous, he is still a deity in some supporters eyes.

 

Contrast that with the man who replaced him - someone who I originally thought was a backwards step, a bad choice for Rangers AND Scotland - who then talks like a sage (even if clich�©d) acts like one and actually gets the expected results and more, but somehow is treated like a pariah by the same supporters.

 

Sorry if I'm "pathetic" and don't get it but I really seem to be struggling with what seems to be becoming some kind of party line...

 

I'm sorry but PLG to me was a Raungers manager because he can never be compared in the same breath with the esteemed Rangers managers of our long and otherwise successful history.

 

His mistake to me was that it seemed he never bothered to research our club or league or culture or pretty much anything to do with the job and so struggled from the off. His embarrassing, cringeworthy pronunciation of the club was in retrospect a glaring indication and reflection of his lack of preparation for a task which in my mind cannot be taken so lightly.

 

This mispronunciation in itself was, I suppose, pretty much nothing on the surface of it: but such a pathetic error by an otherwise obviously intelligent man, a mistake your average Govan ned (non educated delinquent?) would unlikely make after being handed a million quid job abroad, was a terrible omen of how little the guy researched about how to transfer his obvious surfeit of skills, to his new place of employment.

 

Come on, does my contrary posture to the prevailing doom and gloom party line really make me deserve to be patronised so? Or do people actually believe I thought PLG was shite just because of his French accent?:box:

[calscot 0]

Couldnt agree more.

 

Results suggested PLG had to go. But it somehow is now convenient to believe that the results are all PLG's fault.

 

We started off that season playing some cracking stuff - anyone that witnessed MOtherwell at Fir Park or Dundee Utd at Ibrox would have seen that. So what caused the fall off in form ? PLG or subordination amongst the players ?

 

Ok, we're now 4 points behind, Walter definitely is due a bit of a rollicking on here.

 

So will he be granted excuses if we are 17 points behind in January and out of both cups?

 

To me, Rangers managers don't have the luxury of excuses or scapegoats against such poor results even if we're playing "total football" at the time.

 

To be honest, apart from the odd "good neutrals' game", I think the great standard of football under PLG is a myth that I never saw substantiated. But hey, I'm just an armchair fan.

 

However, if we have the same kind of results under Walter or any other manager, I won't be sorry to see them go nor will I bang on about how they should have had more time if they are subsequently replaced - especially if that replacement somehow doesn't need those same excuses.

Edited September 27, 2009 by calscot