UCF2008 0 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Having heard Ally McCoist's comments at the weekend I can't say I disagree with anything he said. Like him, only being able to view the incident through the coverage presented, it certainly looks to me as though a small minority (or about 'half-a-dozen idiots' as he put it) appeared to be over-zealous in the process of supposedly defending themselves. Of course you have to take into account the ridiculous bias from the media in their coverage of these incidents and I've read through a lot of the eye-witness accounts which certainly make sense with regards to what instigated the trouble. Nevertheless, we really need to bare in mind that at this point in time we as Rangers supporters are under the spotlight and having been found guilty of poor conduct on recent occasions are on probation as far as UEFA is concerned. With that in mind I can't see any justification for defending the actions of that small minority. It seems to me that the problem we have is that as well as having a minority of fans who struggle to steer clear of trouble, we have an even smaller number who actively seek it. I don't see this as being any different to any large football support, but the issue is that at the present moment we are the ones who are being closely monitored by those within football's governing bodies. As far as they're concerned, we're the ones who are the recent offenders and are on our last warning. Because of this we need to stop making excuses for these idiots and as a group take more responsibility for our actions if we are to stand a chance of avoiding more trouble in the future. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy steel 0 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Can't see how we have a group actively seeking trouble. If that was the case, how come the vast majority of our games, at home and in Europe, go off without any bother? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF2008 0 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Can't see how we have a group actively seeking trouble. If that was the case, how come the vast majority of our games, at home and in Europe, go off without any bother? What I'm saying is that we have a small element within our support who are always itching for a fight, no matter where they are and who they represent. Like I said, it's not exclusive to RFC. If anything it's more of a problem pouring over from our society in general, but the problem IS there and can't and shouldn't be denied whether it's fueled by alcohol or whatever sort of abuse. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy steel 0 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Well, that's fair enough, but unless we have a remedy for society's ills (resists Marxist propaganda opportunity), we shouldn't beat ourselves up too much. Coming from Johnstone, I used to know a fair few St Mirren nuts - if they have them, every club must do! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Very thought provoking. Unfortunately, the thought it is provoking atm is that we have to accept beatings and whatnot, grin and bear it. I can see the sense but stone me, that's hard to do in practice. I'm as big a wuss as you'll find but if someone is thrashing me I fancy I may resort to hitting back. As Zappa writes, no doubt I would be the one punished but that's not really in your thoughts at the time, is it? I'm not saying that anyone should take a beating & not retaliate, but at the end of the day most of the people in question probably wouldn't have got involved in what happened if they were in lesser numbers. It's all very sketchy, but essentially you're right in the sense that some conflicts need to be resolved through reason rather than force. In the case we're talking about, the people who retaliated to someone being attacked could have responded in a non-violent manner & then Unirea rather than our club would have been in trouble. It's all ifs & buts though and I can understand different points of view on it. As bmck pointed out (or guessed correctly) my main point was regarding the lack of logic in calling for an apology or resignation from Ally McCoist in the wake of problems that were far from being team or coaching related. As others have said here, he should perhaps have declined to comment on the problems in Romania, but his words are a long way from meriting calls for his resignation. There's more than one case of screwed up or fuzzy logic here and there aren't definitive answers to people's questions or grievances. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF2008 0 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Well, that's fair enough, but unless we have a remedy for society's ills (resists Marxist propaganda opportunity), we shouldn't beat ourselves up too much. Coming from Johnstone, I used to know a fair few St Mirren nuts - if they have them, every club must do! They probably do and at the end of the day football probably wouldn't be the same without the headcases in the support, but every club isn't Rangers and we're the one's in the spotlight. I'm not saying we should beat ourselves up about it, but at the same time as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't be siding with them ahead of the club and it's management when they put our club in jeopardy. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,366 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I have to disagree Bluedell. Unirea themselves are being brought up on charges by UEFA specifically related to the fact that arrangements made in consultation with Rangers staff in preparation for the match were not adhered to. That's not to say that more couldn't have been done by our own staff, but they definitely seem to have a cushion when it comes to the dishing out of blame. Getting back to Ally's comments, I find it very difficult to see any logic in asking him to make an apology never mind hand in his resignation. The man is paid as an assistant football manager, nothing more, nothing less & he's certainly not paid to defend or swerve the subject of anyone who discredits Rangers FC by getting into trouble abroad - no matter who started it. It's not about who started it, who threw the first punch or anything like that. It's about Rangers fans going abroad & managing to avoid trouble, no matter what the provocation is. That's what we need & what the club want to see because the charges against us are mounting & the club can not afford to be thrown out of Europe or told to play X amount of games behind closed doors. Ally McCoist only said what a lot of other Rangers fans think about the incident, but I agree with Frankie that it could have been approached more cleverly. Obviously Coisty expected to be talking predominantly about football rather than about the trouble in Romania, so he should probably have been more prepared for that. I don't believe McCoist should resign over it, and I don't think an apology would particularly help, but to continue to give the impression that the fans were not in any way provoked as he did is extremely misleading and could in itself lhelp in increasing the punishment of the club. Yes, we need the fans to behave, but we also need the club to follow up on arrangements made. It's just not good enough to make arrangements and on the day not to ensure that they are followed through and to just sit back and enjoy the corporate entertaining that your hosts are putting on while the support are getting beaten and gassed. McCoist made it clear he thought that the club was in no way to blame which is wrong. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,366 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 They probably do and at the end of the day football probably wouldn't be the same without the headcases in the support, but every club isn't Rangers and we're the one's in the spotlight. I'm not saying we should beat ourselves up about it, but at the same time as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't be siding with them ahead of the club and it's management when they put our club in jeopardy. I'm certainly not siding with them. However the club and management have not helped the situation and to just ignore that fact will result in an increased chance of this happening again, and it's also wrong not to criticise management when they give misleading statements. Just because you criticise one party doesn't mean that you are absolving everyone else. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF2008 0 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I'm certainly not siding with them. However the club and management have not helped the situation and to just ignore that fact will result in an increased chance of this happening again. Sorry but I don't get how anything that Ally McCoist said at the weekend could effect the chances of this happening again other than the remote possibility that the support as a whole would agree with him. In which case it would more likely reduce the chance of a repeat. and it's also wrong not to criticise management when they give misleading statements. I'll agree that he could have said more (something in defence of the support), but like the rest of us that would have been purely based on hearsay as opposed to the evidence he was able to actually witness. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (resists Marxist propaganda opportunity), if only there were a thank you function for specific part of a post 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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