The Failure of the Fans Groups

[boss 0]

maineflyer.

 

I can't be arsed with you when you're in this kind if mood. I bet you could light up a room just by walking out of it.

 

I'm fairly sure some genius once said:

 

Sure, some websites may not make themselves attractive for constructive debate giving such reps convenient excuses not to take part, so the critics themselves are not free of blame. But when one suggests they can represent and lead, such challenges should be overcome when looking at the bigger picture.

[pete 2,499]

Criticism only has a worth if it is constructive but then again if it falls on deaf ears then even constructive criticism is worthless. I am going to be honest i have more of a problem with the assembly at the moment. They are deafening by their silence. This was a perfect chance to get all supporters pushing in one direction and it failed miserably. The leaders of all the supporters groups failed to take the best chance we probably will ever have to unite under one banner. A RANGERS SUPPORTER supporting the club. Maybe the assembly knew all along SDM was only moving his pawns as a puppet normally knows when the puppet master has his hand up his arse.

[Guest enigmablue]

I'm part of the 'failure' so i'll stick in my tuppenceworth. I'm now a fans rep through ORSA and thus part of the WWA/RSA. I'm also an RST member and have been for 4 years approximately.

 

Now how did i get myself mixed up with all this failure?...well I love Rangers and when I moved half way round the world I had no local RSC, so I started one. Then our RSC was approached to join ORSA and we said to them so what does ORSA do? Well eh..we're the fans rep and have a voice at Ibrox. Ok so what are you asking for? Well eh..so I then put forward a wee document suggesting what ORSA should be looking to do in the region...people laughed and said that it'd all been done before and failed.

 

What did I know? I was fresh off the boat but I thought the fans down under were getting a raw deal seeing as it had been 20 odd years since the Gers had last been to Australia. So anyway I persevered and tarted up my document, followed up my idea with possible key stakeholders, met a few people locally who were bear friendly and had some local political and football contacts and started to use ORSA's voice at Ibrox.

 

This is when I started to deal directly with the people at Ibrox. Now this is where I'll need to careful as you start to bite that hand that feeds (in small but tasty morsels for us mere fans). As someone previously whose only real contact was handling in my season ticket money faithfully, buying a strip annually and went to the games I never had to deal with the club directly for anything. I never needed to really; lived locally, didn't travel to many away games unless I got them on my CCC, wasn't a member of an RSC, never went abroad etc I was just you average punter who grew up buying the Rangers News with posters on the bedroom wall etc I didn't have contacts or mates who knew anyone connected to the club. I was one of the 'silent majority'.

 

However fast forward now to my dealings with the club over the past 3/4 years and I can see why we're in the mess we're in at the club. Its not that the people don't do the job to the best of their abilities, it's just that their abilities seem limited. They are all seem to have Rangers at heart but they live in a bubble when it comes to the fans and what we think. They don't seem to operate like a company which turns over millions per year and has over a million 'customers'. Now I'm starting to talk difficult stuff as people can start to quickly decipher who I am and can take me to task but it's not anything I wouldn't or haven't said to others. In summary, I was and still am amazed at how the club operates with the RSC's and fans groups.

 

Then you start to join the dots laid out by all these clever people who are taking the club to task regularly in the RSC's, online communities etc. Suddenly your in the mix and you get a little more of the picture, the ego's, the deals, what to say, what not to say etc So anyway your begin to network more to help out your members and you get sucked into this vortex like suddenly your now Mr Popular and yes it's nice to be a 'someone' but deep down your still just you but people expect you to have bright ideas and things to take your organisation forward. Now I think in my tenure at my local RSC and now in ORSA that i've managed just about to do this but I'm equally as frustrated by the 'failure' of the organisations as anyone else.

 

So anyway in Billy Connelly style jumping around storytelling this is all against the backdrop of pushing to bring the Gers down under for our ORSA bears for the last 3 years. Then the bombshell last July...all the work to identify a commercially viable opportunity, the hours of research, emails, chasing up Ibrox, FFA, FIFA agents, Queensland Govt etc and the Tims sneak in and arrive on our doorstep on the 12th of July. There's another factor back at Ibrox in this story but it doesn't help to discuss it on this thread. So gutted doesn't describe it!

 

So anyway, ORSA AGM in Auckland in March 2010 and we have a post-mortem and a promotion officially for me personally. We say to ourselves well they didn't listen so guess what..sod em? Let's do our own thing and focus on us. Then we get Boston, then we get the news we'd all just about given up on...the gers down under in July 2010. Next thing I've met Walter, Bain and AJ for the first time in Las Vegas and my very first NARSA event and suddenly it all seems very real.

 

The moral of this tale...if one person, in one place can make a difference, collectively then what can we acheive if we do start to work together for all Gers fans?

 

The people in the corridors of Ibrox can and should be open to more of what comes from the ground up and fundamentally until that happens I believe that we could all be pissing in the wind.

 

Now the real question is has the wind changed? We'll the fans can't wait any longer, it HAS to change and we all need to be active in whatever way we can. I'm doing my bit for my RSC, the ORSA members and yes i've got a taste for the 'kudos' that comes with all this but I know I'll step away in the next couple of years and someone else will hopefully take up the mantle with the energy and enthuiasm that I've provided.

 

I honestly now feel drained with my efforts and unless I get some hope that it won't be another 26 years between gers visits then I can't see me doing this much longer because it's a truly a thankless task. Some may have other motives but mine is simple...Rangers First. WATP

[wabashcannonball 0]

I honestly now feel drained with my efforts and unless I get some hope that it won't be another 26 years between gers visits then I can't see me doing this much longer because it's a truly a thankless task. Some may have other motives but mine is simple...Rangers First. WATP

 

Therin lies the simple truth......our motives, fans motives that is, matter not a jot, it is the motives of power, ego and high finance that rule the roost.

[Frankie 8,151]

Criticism only has a worth if it is constructive but then again if it falls on deaf ears then even constructive criticism is worthless. I am going to be honest i have more of a problem with the assembly at the moment. They are deafening by their silence. This was a perfect chance to get all supporters pushing in one direction and it failed miserably. The leaders of all the supporters groups failed to take the best chance we probably will ever have to unite under one banner. A RANGERS SUPPORTER supporting the club. Maybe the assembly knew all along SDM was only moving his pawns as a puppet normally knows when the puppet master has his hand up his arse.

 

Apologies for coming back to this thread late - busy weekend!

 

This is an excellent post and well worthy of quoting.

 

I think the Trust take a lot of criticism - some deserved, some not - simply because they're the most vocal fan group and have the highest profile; even if they have a small membership relatively speaking.

 

However, the Assembly have a far bigger membership (genuine or not), a �£30,000 budget, the ear of the board of directors and direct access to tens of thousands of Rangers fans. As such, they have a bigger responsibility for providing the vehicle for representation than anyone else.

 

To be fair to them they have indicated they appreciate they're not ideally set-up and have been reasonably welcoming of any criticism and suggestions. However, like the Trust, despite having plenty of time to absorb said criticisms and provide the change required to address them, they've done little to make a difference.

 

That is disappointing and given their resources bordering on the unacceptable.

[Frankie 8,151]

I'm part of the 'failure' so i'll stick in my tuppenceworth. I'm now a fans rep through ORSA and thus part of the WWA/RSA. I'm also an RST member and have been for 4 years approximately.

 

Now how did i get myself mixed up with all this failure?...well I love Rangers and when I moved half way round the world I had no local RSC, so I started one. Then our RSC was approached to join ORSA and we said to them so what does ORSA do? Well eh..we're the fans rep and have a voice at Ibrox. Ok so what are you asking for? Well eh..so I then put forward a wee document suggesting what ORSA should be looking to do in the region...people laughed and said that it'd all been done before and failed.

 

What did I know? I was fresh off the boat but I thought the fans down under were getting a raw deal seeing as it had been 20 odd years since the Gers had last been to Australia. So anyway I persevered and tarted up my document, followed up my idea with possible key stakeholders, met a few people locally who were bear friendly and had some local political and football contacts and started to use ORSA's voice at Ibrox.

 

This is when I started to deal directly with the people at Ibrox. Now this is where I'll need to careful as you start to bite that hand that feeds (in small but tasty morsels for us mere fans). As someone previously whose only real contact was handling in my season ticket money faithfully, buying a strip annually and went to the games I never had to deal with the club directly for anything. I never needed to really; lived locally, didn't travel to many away games unless I got them on my CCC, wasn't a member of an RSC, never went abroad etc I was just you average punter who grew up buying the Rangers News with posters on the bedroom wall etc I didn't have contacts or mates who knew anyone connected to the club. I was one of the 'silent majority'.

 

However fast forward now to my dealings with the club over the past 3/4 years and I can see why we're in the mess we're in at the club. Its not that the people don't do the job to the best of their abilities, it's just that their abilities seem limited. They are all seem to have Rangers at heart but they live in a bubble when it comes to the fans and what we think. They don't seem to operate like a company which turns over millions per year and has over a million 'customers'. Now I'm starting to talk difficult stuff as people can start to quickly decipher who I am and can take me to task but it's not anything I wouldn't or haven't said to others. In summary, I was and still am amazed at how the club operates with the RSC's and fans groups.

 

Then you start to join the dots laid out by all these clever people who are taking the club to task regularly in the RSC's, online communities etc. Suddenly your in the mix and you get a little more of the picture, the ego's, the deals, what to say, what not to say etc So anyway your begin to network more to help out your members and you get sucked into this vortex like suddenly your now Mr Popular and yes it's nice to be a 'someone' but deep down your still just you but people expect you to have bright ideas and things to take your organisation forward. Now I think in my tenure at my local RSC and now in ORSA that i've managed just about to do this but I'm equally as frustrated by the 'failure' of the organisations as anyone else.

 

So anyway in Billy Connelly style jumping around storytelling this is all against the backdrop of pushing to bring the Gers down under for our ORSA bears for the last 3 years. Then the bombshell last July...all the work to identify a commercially viable opportunity, the hours of research, emails, chasing up Ibrox, FFA, FIFA agents, Queensland Govt etc and the Tims sneak in and arrive on our doorstep on the 12th of July. There's another factor back at Ibrox in this story but it doesn't help to discuss it on this thread. So gutted doesn't describe it!

 

So anyway, ORSA AGM in Auckland in March 2010 and we have a post-mortem and a promotion officially for me personally. We say to ourselves well they didn't listen so guess what..sod em? Let's do our own thing and focus on us. Then we get Boston, then we get the news we'd all just about given up on...the gers down under in July 2010. Next thing I've met Walter, Bain and AJ for the first time in Las Vegas and my very first NARSA event and suddenly it all seems very real.

 

The moral of this tale...if one person, in one place can make a difference, collectively then what can we acheive if we do start to work together for all Gers fans?

 

The people in the corridors of Ibrox can and should be open to more of what comes from the ground up and fundamentally until that happens I believe that we could all be pissing in the wind.

 

Now the real question is has the wind changed? We'll the fans can't wait any longer, it HAS to change and we all need to be active in whatever way we can. I'm doing my bit for my RSC, the ORSA members and yes i've got a taste for the 'kudos' that comes with all this but I know I'll step away in the next couple of years and someone else will hopefully take up the mantle with the energy and enthuiasm that I've provided.

 

I honestly now feel drained with my efforts and unless I get some hope that it won't be another 26 years between gers visits then I can't see me doing this much longer because it's a truly a thankless task. Some may have other motives but mine is simple...Rangers First. WATP

 

Another excellent post and I'm glad you've posted your experiences mate.

 

In my/our haste to apportion criticism, blame, etc; it is easy to generalise unfairly. For every human obstacle in supporters groups there are diligent, hard-working, experienced, pro-active, qualified people who go about their job very well indeed - expecting and taking minimal thanks for doing so. Believe me when I talk about failure, I still do appreciate the work people like you do but I'm trying to look at the situation as a whole rather than blaming one or two individuals.

 

I can certainly empathise with your frustration and wabash is certainly correct in his appraisal of your situation. After all, if our club won't listen but merely continually patronise and deflect; what chance do we have?

 

Should we even bother then? Should we just pay our money, sit down and shut up?

 

I'd say no but when one examines the picture of representation, sometimes the easy route may just be to put up the white flag and be taken advantage of.

[Frankie 8,151]

Constructive criticism is being noted and absorbed mate.

 

To be slightly fair on a personal level mind you, fans groups and the people involved in them are also being directly and openly criticised for failure and generally speaking, the RST - despite being the smallest and most committed group - is taking the brunt of it (not particularly in the OP on this thread btw).

 

Sometimes public criticism is hard to take, so people bite back - I suppose that's just life and nobody's perfect.

 

I think most people will be more reflective when it matters.

 

I don't blame anyone for being annoyed when criticised. I don't like it myself and it really is difficult to accept being wrong sometimes. I also do understand when I talk about failure, it will put people on the defensive which is why I deliberately mentioned my part in said problems.

 

However, there must come a stage when you realise the genuine people amongst the organisations mentioned are being undermined by the reaction to criticism and unacceptable behaviour of others.

 

Obviously, I don't think it is fair to blame individuals for a problem that, as a support, we all contribute to but when boss talks about elephants in the room, he's probably right unfortunately. I think we all know that - other than a few obstinate people; the ones who won't accept their part in said failure.

 

With regard to the RST, Maineflyer talks about a complete overhaul of the board via resignations. Sure, that is perhaps overly dramatic - after all not everyone is failing I'm sure - but surely it is difficult to continually justify board appointments, re-elections and ongoing policy on such a low turnout/contribution/consultation of the membership?

 

Before anyone accuses me of being a hypocrite, I appreciate these same representative issues were present when I served; of which I was attempting to address in part shortly before I resigned. The more serious challenges I was less able to answer and two years down the line they still exist.

 

So when you talk about the absorption of constructive criticism, what kind of ways do you think the Trust (and Assembly by logical extension) could improve their constitution in order to make them more immediately representative?

 

Both organisations talk about being democratic and initially at least they are as such. However, both organisations have minimal 'ordinary' member participation which suggests inherent problems.

 

As such, while MF may well have a shotgun approach, the point he's making isn't something that should be swatted away as no-one should be wearing a bullet-proof vest here.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Frankie

[Frankie 8,151]

I could make lots of comments but have work to go to. The reason I like this forum is that most of the criticism is at least constructive. Some excellent points have been made, a lot of which I agree with. Many of these things we are aware of e.g. our image, link to FF, perception of some fans (linked to image). I am heading up a sub-group that is looking at how we can attract more members and retain existing ones and I've invited non-Board members onto the group to get them more involved. This is at a very early stage but I think it's a step in the right direction. I'll come on again later (it might be tomorrow as I'm going out tonight) and say more but just want to make a couple of points.

1) The fans groups are working closely together. As you know, the association are represented on our Board, we are part of the Assembly and the Assembly President is a Trust member and has been friendly with the Trust Chairman for over 20 years.

2) We have talked about free membership but have to consider that many people have paid �£100 for life membership so where does that leave them? We are considering e-membership along the lines of MUST.

 

That's all I have time for at the moment.

 

Just to come back to this as well as I appreciate you taking the time to outline your activities to a non-member...

 

1. The sub-group you mention sounds like a positive initiative. Conducting audits of member skills then utilising them is a good SD policy and one all our fans groups (not just the Trust) should be exploring. I'd be interested to hear of any progress on this. Or of ways you're thinking of extending it to other areas?

 

2. Positive relations between these organisations have been around now for over two years. Other than a few statements of mutual concern, I'm not sure enough has been made of such a relationship. With respect, it's easy for Stephen an Andy to share information as friends but it is less easy to address division and apathy outwith committee rooms. I'm glad the organisations are on good terms but they must all improve their outreach activities.

 

3. I'm not sure free 'membership' is all that exciting. A glorified mailing list is all well and good and taking advantage of such improved communications/numbers desirable but I'm sure life/paid members would prefer projects they can get their teeth into such as the one you mention above. I understand costs must be taken into account but how would the Trust cope with the increased numbers a 'free' membership may provide when they struggle to administrate and involve the numbers you have now?

[wabashcannonball 0]

While we here may have twigged that the king has no clothes on, many from what I read in other places think he is draped in all his finery, I would go as far as to say that those of us who have sussed Minty are in a minority.

[Frankie 8,151]

While we here may have twigged that the king has no clothes on, many from what I read in other places think he is draped in all his finery, I would go as far as to say that those of us who have sussed Minty are in a minority.

 

Of course most fans are either 'fans' of our owner or apathetic as to his contribution.

 

That is why - while the club continue to win championships - they can get away with the minimal lip service to supporters. That is why - while the club continue to win championships - any aggressive protests will always be under-subscribed. That is why - if we're to increase our say in the absence of any other owner - we have to start talking his language: money.

 

The Trust spoke about being very close to finding a scheme, underwritten (or possibly initially funded) by Jim McColl that would enable us to buy the club. Now, MF is quite correct in suggesting our own fan problems would reduce the chances of that being successful but I'd counter that by saying having the correct people involved could help us investigate it further; even partially at least.

 

Like I say, we can all sit here and moan, or we can get our heads together and find solutions.