calscot 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I can't see how we can get investment until the tax case is resolved so don't think Whyte can be pressed about future investment when it is not yet timely. However, if his promises are smoke and mirrors and just juggling the normal finances of the club then he could be walking down a dangerous road - for him and the club. I can't see fans supporting an owner who blatantly takes the piss out of them and a season ticket boycott would seem likely to me. It almost finished Celtic but in the end it turned their fortunes big time. It might be our turn to take the club to the brink to get rid of Whyte and bring in a real saviour. However, jumping the gun before we really know if Whyte is fish or fowl would be incredibly stupid on our part. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,366 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Whyte recently stated that we shell out some 3.5m per month to run the club. We have no bank doing this, nor any other facility, mainly due to the HMRC thing. Thus we need to be inventive. As has been said time and again, we signed and dealed 14 players in over the course of Whyte's reign too, My main question is where is the cash at 30th June, which is the only date where we know what our balance was. The contracts for Davis, McGregor, Whittaker were all signed after that. Goian, Bocanegra, Aluko, Wallace, Bedoya, Ortiz etc were all signed after that. . And, as I said before, I do assume that Whyte has an account where he stores a certain sum to pay a small bill from the large case. Where is this account? Are you suggesting he is taking money out of the club to do this? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,327 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 My main question is where is the cash at 30th June, which is the only date where we know what our balance was. The contracts for Davis, McGregor, Whittaker were all signed after that. Goian, Bocanegra, Aluko, Wallace, Bedoya, Ortiz etc were all signed after that. Which cash? We/he had to pay all the players and staff too? I'm not the finance guru on here, I just try to make some more sense of the numbers than King & Co. do. Where is this account? Are you suggesting he is taking money out of the club to do this? Isle of Man, of course! No seriously, he/TRG/Rangers pay all the money, so whether or not the money is in the Rangers accounts or his or that of TRG does not matter. It might (IMHO) be held close to the chest in case the tax bill is smaller than what the press likes it to be. In any case, Whyte/TRG will not say how they do the daily financing of the club or how they prepare for this or that eventuality - much like any other company in the world. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,366 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Which cash? We/he had to pay all the players and staff too? I'm not the finance guru on here, I just try to make some more sense of the numbers than King & Co. do. Which cash? We got in £24m from Ticketus. Whyte cleared the £18m bank loan. Whyte committed to pay us £15m. We should have got in around £15m in season ticket money. Why have we less than £9m in the bank at 30th June? The numbers don't seem to make sense and the likes of traynor and King ARE asking some valid questions....although not all of them are. I know that you are being defensive of whyte and feel that he doesn't have to explain things, but as I've said already, it just doesn't seem to add up. Even when Murray was running up huge debts, the accounts always made sense. I sle of Man, of course! No seriously, he/TRG/Rangers pay all the money, so whether or not the money is in the Rangers accounts or his or that of TRG does not matter. It might (IMHO) be held close to the chest in case the tax bill is smaller than what the press likes it to be. In any case, Whyte/TRG will not say how they do the daily financing of the club or how they prepare for this or that eventuality - much like any other company in the world. Yes it does matter if Rangers cash is in our bank accounts or not. Firstly it's against the terms of shareholders circular for the club to lend cash to Group. Taking cash from the club could also be described as asset stripping and as a director Whyte has to safeguard the assets of the company on behalf of ALL shareholders. He should not be allowed to just take cash from the club as and when he feels like it. Not even Murray did that. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The problem is, I think people assumed the investment in (b), ©, (d) and (f) would not come from mortgaging season tickets and catering contracts but come from the Rangers Group itself. A not unreasonable assumption, one might think. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The point is that he - unless I am mistaken - never gave a date about waiving the debt. Yes he did, 90 days. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) So where is the Ticketus creditor of £24m? Try this: £6M was going to Murray for his shares, which he gave up on because we needed it for working capital; £18M (a familiar figure) to pay off LBG. Not so much a case of 2+2=4; more like 6+18=24. Shades or Liverpool and Manchester Utd on a much smaller scale perhaps? Edited February 7, 2012 by BrahimHemdani 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The figures just don't appear to stack up. They certainly don't. There seems to be a hell of a lot of money unaccounted for, possibly over £20m from what I'm reading. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,327 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yes he did, 90 days. Unless I am mistaken, I answered this myself with a quote from the Circular? Bluedell Which cash? We got in £24m from Ticketus. Whyte cleared the £18m bank loan. Whyte committed to pay us £15m. We should have got in around £15m in season ticket money. Why have we less than £9m in the bank at 30th June? Now wait, when exactly did we do this deal with Ticketus? Before or after June 2011? That aside, unless I am mistaken, we did/do not get the money up front either. As I said before, we pay out some 3.5m a month. Now add up all these months to the date you require (June 2011) and then up to now to see how much we/he/TRG have to spent. It is not that difficult. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Unless I am mistaken, I answered this myself with a quote from the Circular? Indeed you did, Sir, I was just working my way through the posts. Bluedell Now wait, when exactly did we do this deal with Ticketus? Before or after June 2011? That aside, unless I am mistaken, we did/do not get the money up front either. As I said before, we pay out some 3.5m a month. Now add up all these months to the date you require (June 2011) and then up to now to see how much we/he/TRG have to spent. It is not that difficult. Is not the more important point here that if we have spent 70% or whatever of the next three season's ticket money on this year's expenditure, how are we going to finance the next three year's expenditure unless we keep rolling over or extending the debt further into the future; and isn't that a recipe for financial armageddon? BTW I don't belive that's what has happeened at all, as BD has clearly demonstrated there was more than enough in the kitty for running expenses IF Mr Whyte had put up the money stated in the circular and not used the Ticketus money effectively to buy the Club. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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