Has Rangers become just another immoral company?

[Bluedell 5,356]

IIs what HMRC have been doing 100% morally correct?

 

If it is judged that we underpaid tax then yes.

 

I would be wanting HMRC to go after everyone that underpays tax with a vengence. We can pick holes as to the way they have approached certain issues but if it was a merchant bank that was avoiding/evading tax then would you be asking HMRC to go easy on them.

 

However should we as a club really be setting our standards based on HMRC? Should we start behaving like another sleazy club just because they do something? Should we not be above that and operating based on our own codes of conduct?

[Tumshie RFC 0]

The fact that PAYE and VAT hasn't been paid since May frankly disgusted me but that's what happens when you have a Spiv in charge. We all know David Murray is to blame for 90% of the mess we are in but the way Craig Whyte has run our club since May is frankly despicable. This isn't just a run of the mill business this is Rangers Football Club - a Scottish institution. If he was a Rangers fan he would know of the proud traditions that we have.

[GovanAllan 0]

Why only the clubs? Why not the small suppliers who are struggling due to this?

 

The club currently owes me £1,500, for example, but I accept that it is unlikely that I will get fully paid but I fail to see why the clubs should get paid in front of many other creditors.

 

It's a nice thing to wish for but it's very unrealistic, given the amounts that are owed.

 

I stand corrected BD all of you should be paid when we can, I know what it's like not to have an invoice paid on time never mind not paid.

[Bluedell 5,356]

I stand corrected BD all of you should be paid when we can, I know what it's like not to have an invoice paid on time never mind not paid.

 

The problem is, mate, that the cash that's due to me is part of £6m that's outstanding (bond holders). Thinking about it more, perhaps we don't deserve to be put into the same basket as the small suppliers, but it's a difficult situation.

[GovanAllan 0]

The problem is, mate, that the cash that's due to me is part of £6m that's outstanding (bond holders). Thinking about it more, perhaps we don't deserve to be put into the same basket as the small suppliers, but it's a difficult situation.

 

Guy at my mates work was on about that he said.

 

What's the details of that mate?

[calscot 0]

If it is judged that we underpaid tax then yes.

 

I would be wanting HMRC to go after everyone that underpays tax with a vengence. We can pick holes as to the way they have approached certain issues but if it was a merchant bank that was avoiding/evading tax then would you be asking HMRC to go easy on them.

 

However should we as a club really be setting our standards based on HMRC? Should we start behaving like another sleazy club just because they do something? Should we not be above that and operating based on our own codes of conduct?

 

The problem I have here is that the EBTs were considered legal at the time - and were done in full view of HMRC at the time.

 

In my opinion, the way HMRC has done its business has not been moral and often isn't in many walks of life. I think companies need clearer guidence and warnings about tax avoidance when there is a chance it may RETROSPECTIVELY deemed not legal.

 

In fact I think when things are judged retrospectively after a great deal of time then it should be dealt with leniently.

 

Not only have HMRC not been morally lenient is appears they haven't even used brains for their leniency. A settlement for the actual tax avoided without penalty of twenty something million over say 10 years, not only would seem morally superior - it would probably have been agreed to and paid.

 

Suddenly demanding 70M from a club who can't afford it for something that was considered fine 10 years ago just doesn't make moral sense to me and so if they get shafted I have no sympathy.

 

To me it is not a real debt - if it was it should have been demanded at the time, not 10 years later with artificial and hugely inflated penalties.

 

People should pay tax when it's due but this doesn't really fall into that category. I think the fault lies at the tax man for not contesting the loophole when it was being exploited. At best it seems like entrapment.

[BlueMazza 0]

The problem I have here is that the EBTs were considered legal at the time - and were done in full view of HMRC at the time.

 

In my opinion, the way HMRC has done its business has not been moral and often isn't in many walks of life. I think companies need clearer guidence and warnings about tax avoidance when there is a chance it may RETROSPECTIVELY deemed not legal.

 

In fact I think when things are judged retrospectively after a great deal of time then it should be dealt with leniently.

 

Not only have HMRC not been morally lenient is appears they haven't even used brains for their leniency. A settlement for the actual tax avoided without penalty of twenty something million over say 10 years, not only would seem morally superior - it would probably have been agreed to and paid.

 

Suddenly demanding 70M from a club who can't afford it for something that was considered fine 10 years ago just doesn't make moral sense to me and so if they get shafted I have no sympathy.

 

To me it is not a real debt - if it was it should have been demanded at the time, not 10 years later with artificial and hugely inflated penalties.

 

People should pay tax when it's due but this doesn't really fall into that category. I think the fault lies at the tax man for not contesting the loophole when it was being exploited. At best it seems like entrapment.

 

I agree. I don't understand why it's not reported more that at the time the EBT's were considered legal.

[Bluedell 5,356]

The problem I have here is that the EBTs were considered legal at the time

 

EBTs still are legal if they are done properly. As far as I can make out, the issue is that ours weren't done properly, presumably because they have to be discretionary and not contractual (although that bit's just a guess on my part).

 

It's only when it comes to light that they are (perhaps) not being done properly that HMRC would investigate.

 

If what I have said is correct then I'd disagree with your comments.

[pete 2,499]

The fact that PAYE and VAT hasn't been paid since May frankly disgusted me but that's what happens when you have a Spiv in charge. We all know David Murray is to blame for 90% of the mess we are in but the way Craig Whyte has run our club since May is frankly despicable. This isn't just a run of the mill business this is Rangers Football Club - a Scottish institution. If he was a Rangers fan he would know of the proud traditions that we have.

 

The English had Robin Hood it looks like we got Rob'n bastard.