Slightly concerned about feedback from Green's NI trip

[amms 0]

Ha ha ha ha - What complete and utter shite and you fuckin know it!! The 'class' card was played when someone suggested we pander to the middle classes who are staying away as 'we don't have our PR right yet'. I said fuck them as Rangers is not and never should be divided into classes. Read the posts before posting inaccuracies, but why let the truth get in the way?

 

Look, go back and try reading the words again. Not what you want them to say, or imagined they said but what they actually say, it's not as hard as you're making it out to be.

 

You called the OP 'naive' 'mental' or 'at the wind-up' if he thought there were people who would support Rangers if we improved our 'PR'. I pointed out who I thought those people were.

Since then all you've done is insult fellow Rangers fans.

 

Who said Rangers should be divided into classes? Who said we should 'pander'? Please, show me where that was said?

 

It's not just the big words you seem to be struggling with Anchorman, it's reading in general.

[D'Artagnan 173]

Haven't retraced all of this, but wasn't it just one chap describing the OO as sectarian? Obviously, emotions run high here, but by default (and not least the current-day-West-of-Scotland default) the Orange Order is a Protstant only organisation ...

 

 

 

... and thus behaves sectarian. Before people go ballistic ... that is simply the way the order is perceived! The definition of the word is manyfold and differs widely, but we should make no mistake about what really matters here and now (i.e. Scotland). It is the common opinion (created and groomed by you know who) that places the OO alongside all sorts of Irish Republican rabble, if not terrorists. As long as this misconception is not cleared once and for all, anything "orange" will be viewed as sectarian and bigotted and whatnot, no matter how far from the truth this actually is.

 

I see where you are coming from DB ie :- of, belonging or relating to, or characteristic of sects

 

I dont believe its use in this thread was meant to convey that meaning.

 

And I would agree with you .....

 

It is the common opinion (created and groomed by you know who) that places the OO alongside all sorts of Irish Republican rabble, if not terrorists. As long as this misconception is not cleared once and for all, anything "orange" will be viewed as sectarian and bigotted and whatnot, no matter how far from the truth this actually is.

 

PS well done for putting the Battle of the Boyne in to a proper historical perspective in an earlier post. The significance of the League of Augsburg, and the members thereof, always raise a few eyebrows.

[Bluedell 5,348]

Absolutely agree, time we completely ditched all sectarian links/ elements, rebuild our reputation at the same time as our great club.

 

Where do we draw the line? The likes of Spiers and Keevins have criticised us for flying the Union Flag. Should we stop flying it in case we offend them?

 

Who dictates what is sectarian? Do we ditch many of our songs? Do we refuse to allow our players to cross themselves?

 

Are we a great Scottish institution or are we just another football team? We had a card display that said "More than a team". Are we? I think that we are. I'm not convinced that all on here share that view.

 

We should embrace our history and make it a positive thing. That doesn't mean flying the red hand above Ibrox or wearing orange strips, but we do have a Unionist and a Protestant history and it can be be promoted in a way that is positive. Let's not let those who are offended by our very existence dictate to us who we are or what we stand for.

[Anchorman 0]

Look, go back and try reading the words again. Not what you want them to say, or imagined they said but what they actually say, it's not as hard as you're making it out to be.

 

You called the OP 'naive' 'mental' or 'at the wind-up' if he thought there were people who would support Rangers if we improved our 'PR'. I pointed out who I thought those people were.

Since then all you've done is insult fellow Rangers fans.

 

Who said Rangers should be divided into classes? Who said we should 'pander'? Please, show me where that was said?

 

It's not just the big words you seem to be struggling with Anchorman, it's reading in general.

 

In post 133 you state [i]"Yeah, actually, I do think there are literally thousands of people out there who would support Rangers if we got our 'PR' right. Rangers have lost the support of many of the 'Protestant' middle classes in the West of Scotland, you might not care about that, but it has cost us dearly recently and will continue too in the future if we don't address it. Bringing out orange strips does not help do that in my opinion."[/i]

Well if YOUR words quoted here don't refer to different classes that ALREADY exist, and how we should 'change our ways' (pander in my eyes) to bring this flock home, I give up. YOU ARE THE ONE who speaks of how we should try to win the "middle classes" by getting our PR right. I'm all for creating the best image we can for ourselves to enhance our reputation in Europe etc but to win the "middle classes" as YOU put it. Count me out.

[calscot 0]

Where do we draw the line? The likes of Spiers and Keevins have criticised us for flying the Union Flag. Should we stop flying it in case we offend them?

 

As I've said many times, there is stuff that is inappropriate and stuff that is appropriate, using the Union Flag as an example is poor as it's obvious that it's appropriate. I think we can work out a lot of this stuff for ourselves. If people complain at appropriate stuff that's their problem and you can point that out.

 

Who dictates what is sectarian?

 

We work it out for ourselves.

 

Do we ditch many of our songs?

 

Some of our songs have nothing to do with Rangers and are verging on weird and cringeworthy. The Sash is a terrible song which to those not in the know, probably comes across as a bit gay. I've nothing against gay people, but I'm not gay and don't want my club to be thought of as being a gay one - and the same applies to the OO.

 

We've probably got the worst list of songs of any team in the UK and to be honest is was a far bigger repertoire (especially about individual players) when I was young. We could do with bringing some new songs in to contemporary tunes - it's not hard. To make the point, I made about five up when PLG came to the club - they didn't take off, or any others either.

 

Our repertoire is anachronistic and stagnant and the only changes are simple chants to obvious and overused tunes.

 

Do we refuse to allow our players to cross themselves?

 

I don't know about refusing them but to me it's always something that I've seen as highly inappropriate - are they asking god to make them play better football for their huge wage, while there's a famine on somewhere that he's ignoring? It's a bit weird. I've never seen someone bless themselves when just about to their job at any place I've worked.

 

To me religion should be a private thing and maybe we should have a quiet room where any employee, opposition players and officials can go and perform any kind of prayers or religious/superstitious ritual before they go out there.

 

Can you imagine signing a muslim and he gets his prayer mat out on the pitch before every game? It's just ridiculous.

 

Are we a great Scottish institution or are we just another football team? We had a card display that said "More than a team". Are we? I think that we are. I'm not convinced that all on here share that view.

 

I've completely lost you and assuming you are talking about some designated religions and religious orders related to the discourse on the OO. So should Ibrox also be a church? Can't we be more than a team without attaching an off the peg religion to it that already has a network of churches for people to worship in? There is more to spirituality than religion, and it can embrace all religions. There are plenty of good human traits we can champion without using any religion.

 

You don't need any specified religion to be more than a club. I don't really remember Barcelona being referred as a distinctly Catholic club, yet they pretty much invented that tag line.

We should embrace our history and make it a positive thing. That doesn't mean flying the red hand above Ibrox or wearing orange strips, but we do have a Unionist and a Protestant history and it can be be promoted in a way that is positive. Let's not let those who are offended by our very existence dictate to us who we are or what we stand for.

 

Or maybe we could just move with the times and if you want to promote Protestantism, perhaps it is best to do so in the context of the kirks, most of which are not highly patronised. Perhaps it can be promotion towards being a good person who treats others with respect and kindness while helping the needy, rather than putting it all into getting it right up another section of society.

[Anchorman 0]

Some of our songs have nothing to do with Rangers and are verging on weird and cringeworthy. The Sash is a terrible song which to those not in the know, probably comes across as a bit gay. I've nothing against gay people, but I'm not gay and don't want my club to be thought of as being a gay one - and the same applies to the OO.

 

We've probably got the worst list of songs of any team in the UK and to be honest is was a far bigger repertoire (especially about individual players) when I was young. We could do with bringing some new songs in to contemporary tunes - it's not hard. To make the point, I made about five up when PLG came to the club - they didn't take off, or any others either.

 

Ha ha ha - I think you have lost THE plot buddy!! I've heard a few comments about The Sash but that takes the biscuit. Do yourself a favour. Don't walk into any Rangers watering holes and say that too loudly. Just some advice sweetheart!

Maybe your songs were shite perhaps?? Why don't you get a couple of recordings and we can get a panel set up - X Factor type thing.

 

Ahhhh - brilliant. I knew this thread had to go out with a BANG at some point!!

[D'Artagnan 173]

Shucks...guess the Village People's YMCA is a non starter then .....

Edited October 1, 2012 by D'Artagnan

[forlanssister 3,050]

So no pink strip either.....

[Bluedell 5,348]

As I've said many times, there is stuff that is inappropriate and stuff that is appropriate, using the Union Flag as an example is poor as it's obvious that it's appropriate. I think we can work out a lot of this stuff for ourselves. If people complain at appropriate stuff that's their problem and you can point that out.

 

We work it out for ourselves.

 

You say that the Union Flag issue is a poor example because it's obvious that it's appropriate. Surely that makes it a good example then? It may be obvious to you and me but there are others who would disagree with it.

 

As for the "we can work it out for ourselves" comment, I'd agree with that, but there are 2 issues with it:

 

a) given the diversity of views on this thread, it's easier said than done.

b) there are many on the thread, including the post that I was quoting, that seem to prioritise the way others see us or the opinions of others, and therefore do we take into account the views of non-bears? Do we take that into account, and again where do we draw the line on that? I don't know the answer but it's good discussion point.

 

 

 

Some of our songs have nothing to do with Rangers and are verging on weird and cringeworthy. The Sash is a terrible song which to those not in the know, probably comes across as a bit gay. I've nothing against gay people, but I'm not gay and don't want my club to be thought of as being a gay one - and the same applies to the OO.

 

Yes, some of our songs have nothing to do with Rangers. Is that really an issue? Do we stop singing Penny Arcade? You don't like the Sash but I'd suggest you're in the minority.

 

As for gay songs, the gayest song by far being sung is that gay disco Depeche Mode song sung at Parkhead.

 

However I'm not sure how this addresses the point in my post.

 

 

 

Our repertoire is anachronistic and stagnant and the only changes are simple chants to obvious and overused tunes.

 

I'd suggest that you haven't heard the BF1 repertoire.

 

 

 

I don't know about refusing them but to me it's always something that I've seen as highly inappropriate - are they asking god to make them play better football for their huge wage, while there's a famine on somewhere that he's ignoring? It's a bit weird. I've never seen someone bless themselves when just about to their job at any place I've worked.

 

To me religion should be a private thing and maybe we should have a quiet room where any employee, opposition players and officials can go and perform any kind of prayers or religious/superstitious ritual before they go out there.

 

Can you imagine signing a muslim and he gets his prayer mat out on the pitch before every game? It's just ridiculous.

 

Agree with most of that, but again it isn't really addressing the point about whether it's sectarian or not.

 

 

 

I've completely lost you and assuming you are talking about some designated religions and religious orders related to the discourse on the OO. So should Ibrox also be a church? Can't we be more than a team without attaching an off the peg religion to it that already has a network of churches for people to worship in? There is more to spirituality than religion, and it can embrace all religions. There are plenty of good human traits we can champion without using any religion.

 

You're correct that you don't get the point I'm trying to make.

 

You don't need any specified religion to be more than a club. I don't really remember Barcelona being referred as a distinctly Catholic club, yet they pretty much invented that tag line.

 

If you don't get the reasons why Barcelona use the tag line (and obviously not for religious reasons) then I guess you don't get why we used it either?

 

 

Or maybe we could just move with the times and if you want to promote Protestantism, perhaps it is best to do so in the context of the kirks, most of which are not highly patronised. Perhaps it can be promotion towards being a good person who treats others with respect and kindness while helping the needy, rather than putting it all into getting it right up another section of society.

 

I'm not talking of promoting Protestantism. I'm talking about promoting our history.

[calscot 0]

Ha ha ha - I think you have lost THE plot buddy!! I've heard a few comments about The Sash but that takes the biscuit. Do yourself a favour. Don't walk into any Rangers watering holes and say that too loudly. Just some advice sweetheart!

 

Shouldn't I have nothing to fear from religious people who devote themselves to the teachings of Christ who preached against violence? Or are you saying those that sing the sash are sensitive wee souls? Kind of shows how messed up it is. But if you want to sing about your father's beautiful sash then I've no problem with that, but it's still a bit of a weird old song for a football match.

 

Maybe your songs were shite perhaps??

 

Maybe, but do you actually know many football songs that aren't a bit shite? You're completely missing the point anyway, there has been few new songs by ANYONE for years and we've lost a lot of the old ones.

 

There are plenty of modern anthems to adapt.