Slightly concerned about feedback from Green's NI trip

[Zappa 0]

What about a blue Adidas top with orange sleeve stripes, details, logos and so on? Would that be ok?

 

Just how far does this whole "say no to orange" thing actually go? Would some orange stripes on a blue strip offend anyone?

 

What about some orange details and graphics on one of our black or dark grey third kits? Any designer will tell you that black/dark grey + orange is a winning colour combo in the design world, but would it be a no-no to have any orange in our strip designs at all?

 

Have we all gone insane?

Edited October 1, 2012 by Zappa
typo

[amms 0]

In post 133 you state [i]"Yeah, actually, I do think there are literally thousands of people out there who would support Rangers if we got our 'PR' right. Rangers have lost the support of many of the 'Protestant' middle classes in the West of Scotland, you might not care about that, but it has cost us dearly recently and will continue too in the future if we don't address it. Bringing out orange strips does not help do that in my opinion."[/i]

Well if YOUR words quoted here don't refer to different classes that ALREADY exist, and how we should 'change our ways' (pander in my eyes) to bring this flock home, I give up. YOU ARE THE ONE who speaks of how we should try to win the "middle classes" by getting our PR right. I'm all for creating the best image we can for ourselves to enhance our reputation in Europe etc but to win the "middle classes" as YOU put it. Count me out.

 

Right, so nobody said Rangers should be divided into classes and nobody said we should pander, you just imagined it.

 

Let me try and clear this up then so we can get back to the point in hand. This isn’t about ‘class’ or ‘PR’, they are just words used to illustrate a point. It isn’t about pandering to anyone. It’s about recognising that a significant and influential group of people in this country are put off Rangers by any ‘orange’ association and what they perceive that to mean. In many ways they should be natural Rangers supporters, their geography and cultural upbringing should lead them to favour us.

 

Some of those people might have been quite helpful to us in recent times.

 

It’s not a matter of pandering to them, it’s about understanding that the majority in our society choose not to get involved not only with organised religion but with the Orange Order’s specific brand of it. They’ve rejected it, for whatever reasons, as being irrelevant to them.

 

Why would we as a club then choose to associate ourselves with an organisation the bulk of the population have rejected? Aside from any cultural or religious reasons it doesn’t make long term financial sense to align ourselves there.

 

You know if we’re looking for quasi-military religious groups to partner then bring out a BB replica strip, less baggage, more members, greater affection in society. Navy top, white ‘sash’, brown belt and badges on the sleeve; I’d buy it!

[D'Artagnan 173]

In many ways they should be natural Rangers supporters, their geography and cultural upbringing should lead them to favour us.

 

AMMS

 

Could you elaborate on that for me please.

[amms 0]

AMMS

 

Could you elaborate on that for me please.

 

Geographically they were raised in central Scotland and culturally they have an interest in football and were given a nominal 'Protestant' upbringing or raised with no religion at all.

[Anchorman 0]

Right, so nobody said Rangers should be divided into classes and nobody said we should pander, you just imagined it.

 

Your words are there in black and white. What more should I provide FFS?

YOU use the words "we have lost the support of the middle classes", which infers that there are different 'classes' in your mind. Surely? Does it NOT?

And you want us to model ourselves in such a way as to "get our PR right" to win the back. That's what you said. NO??

So in your mind we are already divided into classes, and you want us to pand...., sorry, change, to win them over. Thank you. Isn't that what I just said?

[calscot 0]

You say that the Union Flag issue is a poor example because it's obvious that it's appropriate. Surely that makes it a good example then? It may be obvious to you and me but there are others who would disagree with it.

 

The point is who cares if they disagree with something that is obviously appropriate? You're not going to get that one passed reasonable thinking people or a law passed against it. A campaign against the union flag would end in disaster for those running it.

 

As for the "we can work it out for ourselves" comment, I'd agree with that, but there are 2 issues with it:

 

a) given the diversity of views on this thread, it's easier said than done.

b) there are many on the thread, including the post that I was quoting, that seem to prioritise the way others see us or the opinions of others, and therefore do we take into account the views of non-bears? Do we take that into account, and again where do we draw the line on that? I don't know the answer but it's good discussion point.

 

It better that than just giving stick after stick to be beaten with.

 

Yes, some of our songs have nothing to do with Rangers. Is that really an issue? Do we stop singing Penny Arcade? You don't like the Sash but I'd suggest you're in the minority.

 

The problem I have with the Sash is that it's about something else that's detrimental to Rangers. I'm not into Penny Arcade either but assume it's not about an unrelated religious or political point that is contentious and potential divisive?

 

As for gay songs, the gayest song by far being sung is that gay disco Depeche Mode song sung at Parkhead.

 

Not heard it, but believe you.

 

 

 

 

I'd suggest that you haven't heard the BF1 repertoire.

 

Probably only on the telly as I haven't been able to make it to a game for a while. It's hard to make out but when it gets loud it does sound like the usual favourites.

 

 

 

Agree with most of that, but again it isn't really addressing the point about whether it's sectarian or not.

 

It's not sectarian and neither is pretending to play the flute... If it's done to wind people up then it falls under plenty of other rules.

 

 

 

You're correct that you don't get the point I'm trying to make.

 

If you don't get the reasons why Barcelona use the tag line (and obviously not for religious reasons) then I guess you don't get why we used it either?

 

In the context given, I inferred that you thought that for us it was about religion and politics.

 

 

 

I'm not talking of promoting Protestantism. I'm talking about promoting our history.

[D'Artagnan 173]

Geographically they were raised in central Scotland and culturally they have an interest in football and were given a nominal 'Protestant' upbringing or raised with no religion at all.

 

But surely that doesnt mean they would necessarily gravitate towards our club ? Clyde, Airdrie, Partick Thistle or Queens Park etc may take issue with that !!

[Bluedell 5,356]

You know if we’re looking for quasi-military religious groups to partner then bring out a BB replica strip, less baggage, more members, greater affection in society. Navy top, white ‘sash’, brown belt and badges on the sleeve; I’d buy it!

 

Fantastic idea!!!

 

Hopefully the fans could also buy the optional hat.

[calscot 0]

You say that the Union Flag issue is a poor example because it's obvious that it's appropriate. Surely that makes it a good example then? It may be obvious to you and me but there are others who would disagree with it.

 

The point is who cares if they disagree with something that is obviously appropriate? You're not going to get that one passed reasonable thinking people or a law passed against it. A campaign against the union flag would end in disaster for those running it.

 

As for the "we can work it out for ourselves" comment, I'd agree with that, but there are 2 issues with it:

 

a) given the diversity of views on this thread, it's easier said than done.

b) there are many on the thread, including the post that I was quoting, that seem to prioritise the way others see us or the opinions of others, and therefore do we take into account the views of non-bears? Do we take that into account, and again where do we draw the line on that? I don't know the answer but it's good discussion point.

 

It better that than just giving stick after stick to be beaten with.

 

Yes, some of our songs have nothing to do with Rangers. Is that really an issue? Do we stop singing Penny Arcade? You don't like the Sash but I'd suggest you're in the minority.

 

The problem I have with the Sash is that it's about something else that's detrimental to Rangers. I'm not into Penny Arcade either but assume it's not about an unrelated religious or political point that is contentious and potential divisive?

 

As for gay songs, the gayest song by far being sung is that gay disco Depeche Mode song sung at Parkhead.

 

Not heard it, but believe you.

 

 

 

 

I'd suggest that you haven't heard the BF1 repertoire.

 

Probably only on the telly as I haven't been able to make it to a game for a while. It's hard to make out but when it gets loud it does sound like the usual favourites.

 

 

 

Agree with most of that, but again it isn't really addressing the point about whether it's sectarian or not.

 

It's not sectarian and neither is pretending to play the flute... If it's done to wind people up then it falls under plenty of other rules.

 

 

 

You're correct that you don't get the point I'm trying to make.

 

If you don't get the reasons why Barcelona use the tag line (and obviously not for religious reasons) then I guess you don't get why we used it either?

 

In the context given, I inferred that you thought that for us it was about religion and politics.

 

 

I'm not talking of promoting Protestantism. I'm talking about promoting our history.

 

For which most people tend to think is about religion and politics...

[calscot 0]

What about a blue Adidas top with orange sleeve stripes, details, logos and so on? Would that be ok?

 

Just how far does this whole "say no to orange" thing actually go? Would some orange stripes on a blue strip offend anyone?

 

What about some orange details and graphics on one of our black or dark grey third kits? Any designer will tell you that black/dark grey + orange is a winning colour combo in the design world, but would it be a no-no to have any orange in our strip designs at all?

 

Have we all gone insane?

 

 

How about an orange home kit - ditch the blue? Or a pink one if you want to use new colours?

 

We don't need orange and have tradional colours that are very nice. Why look like Motherwell or Dundee Utd. I would rather stick to our colours of blue, white, black and red. They are good colours and I like them.