amms 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 If there's no profit....how do you re-invest in the team?? If the club/business is profitable, money is being invested sensibly in the team and the Ground etc, and there is some profit left over I have absolutely no problem with dividend being offered. I'm sure Sainsbury's could make more profit by only selling their value range of goods.....but they would lose a lot of customers who want better quality and therefore reduce that profit. Its about finding a balance that works. Look, we're not Sainsbury's, Sainsbury's entire goal is to create profit for their shareholders, that shouldn't be ours. If you as a customer are unhappy with Sainsbury's choice of dry goods you can go to Morrisons or Tesco, if you are unhappy with Rangers are you going to start watching Celtic or Motherwell? The two scenarios are simply not analogous and that's why this whole system is flawed. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 if you are unhappy with Rangers are you going to start watching Celtic or Motherwell? The two scenarios are simply not analogous and that's why this whole system is flawed. If fans are not happy with what their seeing on the pitch, a good number will stop going to the games - is that not one of the main problems in Scottish football just now!!! If you don't like the latest strip...you don't buy it. Basically, if your not entirely satisfied with the goods on offer, you think twice before spending your hard earned cash on them. If that happens, profits go down. The bottom line is that Rangers are a business, and needs to be run according to sound business principles. If it is not.....well we know where that leads. The business is offering a product - Football. If the product is poor, the business suffers. If the product is good, the business prospers, and hopefully the product is improved. If the club wants to attract investment, they need to offer something in return - dividends. If the reward is attractive enough, the investors will hopefully put in more cash. Relying on "Rangers Men" with loads of cash who are happy to give away £5m (for example), with no possibility of return, ain't gonna work long term. I posed the question earlier in the thread about Dave King. In return for some future investment, he would want a place on the Board - that is his return. Seeing as how he was on the Board previously, and didn't appear to do a helluva lot to stop the financial meltdown.....would folk be happy to see him back there??? That is Kings return for his investment. What if others demand the same return - where would that leave the club??? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amms 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 If fans are not happy with what their seeing on the pitch, a good number will stop going to the games - is that not one of the main problems in Scottish football just now!!! If you don't like the latest strip...you don't buy it. Basically, if your not entirely satisfied with the goods on offer, you think twice before spending your hard earned cash on them. If that happens, profits go down. The bottom line is that Rangers are a business, and needs to be run according to sound business principles. If it is not.....well we know where that leads. The business is offering a product - Football. If the product is poor, the business suffers. If the product is good, the business prospers, and hopefully the product is improved. If the club wants to attract investment, they need to offer something in return - dividends. If the reward is attractive enough, the investors will hopefully put in more cash. Relying on "Rangers Men" with loads of cash who are happy to give away £5m (for example), with no possibility of return, ain't gonna work long term. I posed the question earlier in the thread about Dave King. In return for some future investment, he would want a place on the Board - that is his return. Seeing as how he was on the Board previously, and didn't appear to do a helluva lot to stop the financial meltdown.....would folk be happy to see him back there??? That is Kings return for his investment. What if others demand the same return - where would that leave the club??? It's more complicated than that though. There are many ways of engaging a football support, it's much more than simply the football on the pitch. Scottish football is losing support for a whole variety of reasons. The 'quality' of football is certainly one of them but it isn't the only one. Price is a big factor, timing of games, the intransigence of owners and governing bodies, lack of empathy with through to downright hostility towards players, the list goes on. This belief that football clubs are businesses and they need market forces applied to them is simply flawed. My relationship with Rangers is like no other relationship with a 'business', as is yours. If what we want to create is a market forces led structure and club then eventually we'll have customers not fans, then where will we be? Rangers, and almost all successful, and indeed not so successful, football clubs, have existed and prospered for well over a century, far, far longer than most market led businesses I'd point out, because they didn't move with market forces and because they engaged with us on an emotional level. For Rangers to prosper we can't be market led, because if we are we'll lose out to clubs with smaller supports but much bigger revenue streams and potential earning opportunities. For Rangers to prosper we need to shore up our supporter base, engage with them and listen to them. We need to provide attractive, exciting football at affordable prices at times and days of the week that suit our support. All major decisions should be taken with our support in mind, by doing this we'll grow the loyalty and love for our club and in turn grow the club. People keep telling me we need to be run as a sound business like this is some sort of revelation, it isn't. For the vast majority of our history we were run as a sound business; but nobody got dividends. Being a director of Rangers should be a privilege afforded to only a select few supporters who can offer the club experience and guidance or something tangible like that, not an appointment based on the whims and interests of cockney wide-boys in Canary Wharf. It is my firm belief that if football in general, and Rangers in particular, go down the route of treating supporters as customers and the club as a profit driven business we'll eventually die. Not tomorrow, or next year but slowly over the next decade or two. I'm not trying to be melodramatic but it's our love for the club that sustains it, if we don't continue to foster that, to nurture it in the next generation the club will eventually die. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It's more complicated than that though. There are many ways of engaging a football support, it's much more than simply the football on the pitch. Scottish football is losing support for a whole variety of reasons. The 'quality' of football is certainly one of them but it isn't the only one. Price is a big factor, timing of games, the intransigence of owners and governing bodies, lack of empathy with through to downright hostility towards players, the list goes on. This belief that football clubs are businesses and they need market forces applied to them is simply flawed. My relationship with Rangers is like no other relationship with a 'business', as is yours. If what we want to create is a market forces led structure and club then eventually we'll have customers not fans, then where will we be? Rangers, and almost all successful, and indeed not so successful, football clubs, have existed and prospered for well over a century, far, far longer than most market led businesses I'd point out, because they didn't move with market forces and because they engaged with us on an emotional level. For Rangers to prosper we can't be market led, because if we are we'll lose out to clubs with smaller supports but much bigger revenue streams and potential earning opportunities. For Rangers to prosper we need to shore up our supporter base, engage with them and listen to them. We need to provide attractive, exciting football at affordable prices at times and days of the week that suit our support. All major decisions should be taken with our support in mind, by doing this we'll grow the loyalty and love for our club and in turn grow the club. People keep telling me we need to be run as a sound business like this is some sort of revelation, it isn't. For the vast majority of our history we were run as a sound business; but nobody got dividends. Being a director of Rangers should be a privilege afforded to only a select few supporters who can offer the club experience and guidance or something tangible like that, not an appointment based on the whims and interests of cockney wide-boys in Canary Wharf. It is my firm belief that if football in general, and Rangers in particular, go down the route of treating supporters as customers and the club as a profit driven business we'll eventually die. Not tomorrow, or next year but slowly over the next decade or two. I'm not trying to be melodramatic but it's our love for the club that sustains it, if we don't continue to foster that, to nurture it in the next generation the club will eventually die. Do you believe Celtic will die amms? They're very much business run these days. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Do you believe Celtic will die amms? They're very much business run these days. they are driving fans away numbers are down year on year and i know their business first style is behind that with 2 former season book holders i know. but they are a long long way from death certainly. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amms 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Do you believe Celtic will die amms? They're very much business run these days. If they ignore their support they will, if they take them for granted they will. Have you seen there crowds this season? A year or so back I was privy to some market research Celtic did of their support. The single biggest issue affecting attendance at Parkhead was habit. I kid you not, when someone got out of the habit of attending it was very hard to make that person return on a regular basis. A large number of their support are breaking the habit currently. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuznetsov 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 celtic have several players they can get upwards of 5 million pounds for if they need it. they are nowhere near dying. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amms 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 celtic have several players they can get upwards of 5 million pounds for if they need it. they are nowhere near dying. Not this season, or next. But in time if they alienate their support they will. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuznetsov 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not this season, or next. But in time if they alienate their support they will. no chance. that club bends over more than any to pander their their lowest of low fans to keep them onside, that wont change. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amms 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 no chance. that club bends over more than any to pander their their lowest of low fans to keep them onside, that wont change. I understand the lowest of the low are currently arranging a boycot of their next home match. We live in interesting times mate. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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