Objectionable fan banner against Ashley

[simplythebest 0]

So if it's given a lot of thought, consideration and effort you object to it, but if it's a knee-jerk reaction that's okay? It's a fairly unusual stance I think.

 

If it's a knee jerk reaction I find it much more understandable, wouldn't necessarily say okay. Fact is I do it myself including at football.

[der Berliner 3,292]

But people curse and swear all around me at Ibrox all the time, countless songs that include swearing are sung at Ibrox and every other football ground for that matter. The support can't claim 'dignity', we're a vast and disparate group, swearing has been part of the tradition of football for generations.

Never has communication between the support and the 'club leaders' been more forceful, clear or effective than when groups of supporters chanted for John Grieg to 'get to fuck' when he was the manager.

 

The club - or pub or friend in my example - can do little to stop people from having their own ideas and speak about them. Still, if they come to your place and bring offensive material along, be it banners or ACAB shirts, you can stop them from displaying either or entering in the first place. And people should stop wielding the "freedom of speech" - club each time someone denies it at this or that venue. No-one stops you from singing and swearing or displaying ACAB shirts or whatnot 22/7 (sic!), but within certain premisses rules change. And we all accept that. No-one stops people bringing banners along ... if they are appropriate. And there is nothing "Stalin- or North Korean-like" if swear banners are not allowed into the ground. The comparison alone beggars belief.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

You might recall a few months ago we had a discussion on here after another banner was displayed, quite possibly by the same group.

It singled out a politician for fairly robust abuse. At the time the majority on here didn't have much problem with it, indeed a fair number were defending those who displayed it and their right to display it. It got quite heated on here, indeed at least one poster left the board shortly after it.

The point I made at the time was that different banners will upset different people. Because a number on here agreed with the basic sentiment of the anti-Salmond banner they happily defended it. Because some disagree with this sentiment it's being criticised. Who is the arbiter of taste here, who decides what can and can't be displayed?

 

The way I see it we either need to ban them all or none at all.

 

As for the banner it is very misguided, Ashely, however objectionable he comes across isn't the villain here, he's buying, the subject of their ire should be whoever is selling.

 

 

Can't agree amms. The banners against Alex Salmond are party political and seek to align the Rangers support, of which I am one, with a certain political agenda, which I am vehemently opposed to. This serves only to divide the support and, in the worst case, drive away fans of a different political persuasion. This harms the club and such banners have no place at Ibrox.

The banner about Ashley is a different matter entirely. This *was* purely club/football related. This was a group of genuine fans who had a point to make. They have the right to make their point and their banner was legitimate.

 

I disagree with their opinion and I think they were wrong to do it; but banners like that shouldn't be banned - because they *are* purely club/football related. It's called "free speech", mate. It used to be popular about 30 years ago. Look it up.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

But it's football related and a legitimate point of view. I've heard Rangers players hounded by supporters, jeered and booed, I've heard managers get the same. It seems to me people have an issue with the medium rather than the message. What's the difference between a chant or a banner, or indeed a post on a messageboard?

 

Also you said reflects 'poorly' on us, why do you say that, what's 'poor' about it?

 

Me again. Simple rule; easy to follow; no exceptions: You never, ever, boo a player in a Rangers Shirt.

 

Boo the manager; fine.

Boo the team; not so fine, but understandable.

Boo the player; never.

 

The only time to ever boo a player is if he's a lazy waster; and that's the manager's fault for playing him, so boo the manager.

[Zappa 0]

Good reply Zappa. I mean you've dodged answering the point but you did it with some panache, that's always to be admired.

 

What point did I dodge? Oh and that's a good one, since you completely dodged answering my points previously regarding such a banner being unfair to the club and fans who don't share that harsh viewpoint about telling Ashley GTF. Simple, but valid points...

[Bluedell 5,356]

Can't agree amms. The banners against Alex Salmond are party political and seek to align the Rangers support, of which I am one, with a certain political agenda, which I am vehemently opposed to. This serves only to divide the support and, in the worst case, drive away fans of a different political persuasion. This harms the club and such banners have no place at Ibrox.

The banner about Ashley is a different matter entirely. This *was* purely club/football related. This was a group of genuine fans who had a point to make. They have the right to make their point and their banner was legitimate.

 

I disagree with their opinion and I think they were wrong to do it; but banners like that shouldn't be banned - because they *are* purely club/football related. It's called "free speech", mate. It used to be popular about 30 years ago. Look it up.

 

Given your first paragraph I guess you don't really mean your last paragraph.

[kuznetsov 0]

free speech was banned in scotland when the catholics took over.

[amms 0]

The club - or pub or friend in my example - can do little to stop people from having their own ideas and speak about them. Still, if they come to your place and bring offensive material along, be it banners or ACAB shirts, you can stop them from displaying either or entering in the first place. And people should stop wielding the "freedom of speech" - club each time someone denies it at this or that venue. No-one stops you from singing and swearing or displaying ACAB shirts or whatnot 22/7 (sic!), but within certain premisses rules change. And we all accept that. No-one stops people bringing banners along ... if they are appropriate. And there is nothing "Stalin- or North Korean-like" if swear banners are not allowed into the ground. The comparison alone beggars belief.

 

So are you suggesting the club make a list of what can and can't be said/sung/worn/waved inside Ibrox? That list exists just now and telling a multi-millionaire sports shop owner to fuck off isn't on it as far as I know. Do you think it should be?

 

If so then where do you draw the line? Can no one be told to 'fuck off', only some people, only people the majority of the support agree on? You say we can bring banners if they are appropriate, this is my point, who decides what's appropriate, Charles Green, the police, the stewards? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with any of those three telling me what I can and can't express a view on.

 

I'm not wielding a freedom of speech club, i'm pointing out that what one person finds inappropriate another person feels is one of the most important issues facing the club currently. Who decides who is correct?

 

I've not made any comparisons with totalitarian regimes.

[amms 0]

Can't agree amms. The banners against Alex Salmond are party political and seek to align the Rangers support, of which I am one, with a certain political agenda, which I am vehemently opposed to. This serves only to divide the support and, in the worst case, drive away fans of a different political persuasion. This harms the club and such banners have no place at Ibrox.

The banner about Ashley is a different matter entirely. This *was* purely club/football related. This was a group of genuine fans who had a point to make. They have the right to make their point and their banner was legitimate.

 

I disagree with their opinion and I think they were wrong to do it; but banners like that shouldn't be banned - because they *are* purely club/football related. It's called "free speech", mate. It used to be popular about 30 years ago. Look it up.

 

You can see the huge contradiction between your first paragraph and your last one, yes?

 

I'm simply pointing out the difficulty in deciding what is proscribed, you make a perfect example of it, you, like many others, are uncomfortable with one banner but less so with another. Others will take the opposite view, who decides which is correct?

[amms 0]

Me again. Simple rule; easy to follow; no exceptions: You never, ever, boo a player in a Rangers Shirt.

 

Boo the manager; fine.

Boo the team; not so fine, but understandable.

Boo the player; never.

 

The only time to ever boo a player is if he's a lazy waster; and that's the manager's fault for playing him, so boo the manager.

 

So do you ban 'booing' of players? If someone does it should they be ejected? How is this enforced exactly? I hate the singling out of players too, but it happens, a lot, and in the end the person doing it has paid their money, given up their time and probably cares as much about the club as I do. However misguided I feel they are I don't know I've the right to tell them they can't express their feelings.

 

The point of the post was to ask what the difference is between a chant and a banner. Premeditation was STBs answer, I personally don't see that as a mitigating factor.