A dinosaur rears it's head

[Stimpy 0]

Why? As a staunch no voter I expect it to be close.

 

Possibly because you're hung up emotionally? Watching from the sidelines in NI the SNP have failed to put over an argument/reason that shows Scotland is better off independent.

[simplythebest 0]

Possibly because you're hung up emotionally? Watching from the sidelines in NI the SNP have failed to put over an argument/reason that shows Scotland is better off independent.

 

That's how it seems to me as well but you can't underestimate the number of people in Scotland that are likely looking at it from a Braveheart perspective, or those that simply want to get away from the UK government irrespective of what case the SNP is putting forward.

 

I only can hope the vast majority look at it sensibly.

 

BTW SB do you get any NI movement for independence from the UK?

[Stimpy 0]

That's how it seems to me as well but you can't underestimate the number of people in Scotland that are likely looking at it from a Braveheart perspective, or those that simply want to get away from the UK government irrespective of what case the SNP is putting forward.

 

I only can hope the vast majority look at it sensibly.

 

BTW SB do you get any NI movement for independence from the UK?

 

Irish nationalism? Different ball game but I've always maintained it'll happen before Scottish, and a united Ireland will never happen.

 

Cool story bro: Coming off the boat last year, forget which game, I was invited to the Crusaders Club for a few. One guy in the company proclaimed to be a Scottish nationalist and loyalist at the same time. Unsure how that worked I started probing him. He was, according to him, a true loyalist, massive protestant and hater of Sinn Fein but fiercely Scottish, hates No. 10 and the Queen. When I asked how he felt about Martin Mcguinness meeting Salmond on several occasions over lunch etc, he point blankly refused to hear me out. Refused to believe his beloved SNP would ever do such a thing.

 

So I googled SNP meet Sinn Fein and showed him the results, which were very recent, he nearly cried. Not sure if I converted him but his estimations shot down the tubes and has never mentioned the convo since, even though I bump into him on the boat and our local supermarket.

[simplythebest 0]

Irish nationalism? Different ball game but I've always maintained it'll happen before Scottish, and a united Ireland will never happen.

 

Cool story bro: Coming off the boat last year, forget which game, I was invited to the Crusaders Club for a few. One guy in the company proclaimed to be a Scottish nationalist and loyalist at the same time. Unsure how that worked I started probing him. He was, according to him, a true loyalist, massive protestant and hater of Sinn Fein but fiercely Scottish, hates No. 10 and the Queen. When I asked how he felt about Martin Mcguinness meeting Salmond on several occasions over lunch etc, he point blankly refused to hear me out. Refused to believe his beloved SNP would ever do such a thing.

 

So I googled SNP meet Sinn Fein and showed him the results, which were very recent, he nearly cried. Not sure if I converted him but his estimations shot down the tubes and has never mentioned the convo since, even though I bump into him on the boat and our local supermarket.

Nice one mate. If he hates the Queen you could also mention Salmond's plans to keep the Queen in an independent Scotland, and how he's always playing her up as 'Queen of Scots' etc.

[Stimpy 0]

Nice one mate. If he hates the Queen you could also mention Salmond's plans to keep the Queen in an independent Scotland, and how he's always playing her up as 'Queen of Scots' etc.

 

Ha! The dude's all over the place and was very much misguided.

[Thinker 887]

I can, however, lament the fact you are a feeble-minded, lackey to the will of our English Overlords and that you are betraying your children's future and that generations of Scots yet unborn will curse your name in perpetuity.

 

In your jesting you've actually raised another point that's always concerned me: What about the generations of children who grow up in the rest of the UK outside of Scotland? Should I stop caring about them? My brother's side of the family all live in Carlisle.

 

And, just to be nit-picky, when you talk about generations of unborn Scots - those who will miss out are Scots in the sense of "whomsoever chooses to live in Scotland", right? Not necessarily my children or the children of anyone who I share my community with at the moment?

[The Real PapaBear 0]

In your jesting you've actually raised another point that's always concerned me: What about the generations of children who grow up in the rest of the UK outside of Scotland? Should I stop caring about them? My brother's side of the family all live in Carlisle.

Why on earth would you stop caring about people because of where they live or which passport they hold?

 

And, just to be nit-picky, when you talk about generations of unborn Scots - those who will miss out are Scots in the sense of "whomsoever chooses to live in Scotland", right? Not necessarily my children or the children of anyone who I share my community with at the moment?

 

It's not difficult. If a child is born in Scotland, irrespective of his or her parentage, grows up in Scotland and chooses to live in Scotland, that child is Scottish.

If a child is born elsewhere,. England for example, of Scottish parentage, grows up in England and wishes to continue to live in England, then that person is English.

To suggest otherwise is to follow the germanic model of the bloodline determining you nationality - which is not a pleasant thing at all.

 

If we become independent and your children continue to live in England after the age of majority, then I have bad news for you mate; you have fathered Englishmen.

 

You're still allowed to love them, though.

[Thinker 887]

Why on earth would you stop caring about people because of where they live or which passport they hold?

 

Well, going by your previous arguments, the UK need Scotland more than Scotland needs the UK, due largely to income from oil reserves. Presumably if independence is of financial benefit to Scotland, it's also to the financial detriment of the rest of the UK. Why would I wish to vote for a situation that is detrimental to people that I care about.

 

It's not difficult. If a child is born in Scotland, irrespective of his or her parentage, grows up in Scotland and chooses to live in Scotland, that child is Scottish.

If a child is born elsewhere,. England for example, of Scottish parentage, grows up in England and wishes to continue to live in England, then that person is English.

To suggest otherwise is to follow the germanic model of the bloodline determining you nationality - which is not a pleasant thing at all.

 

If we become independent and your children continue to live in England after the age of majority, then I have bad news for you mate; you have fathered Englishmen.

 

You're still allowed to love them, though.

 

No, don't get me wrong, it is a simple definition. The point I'm trying to make is that, the definition of Scots that you're using isn't something I can feel passionate about. It's not an ethnicity (happily, as you say) but it's not even really a culture either. It's a multi-cultural "fortunate few" hived off from the larger multi-cultural whole. It seems like more of a separation of "haves" from "have-nots".

Edited August 1, 2013 by Thinker

[calscot 0]

Possibly because you're hung up emotionally? Watching from the sidelines in NI the SNP have failed to put over an argument/reason that shows Scotland is better off independent.

 

SNP's argument makes the most sense motivationally.

 

SNP say Scotland will be better off so want to leave. That's pretty logical.

 

English opposition says we'll be worse off, therefore England will be better off, so we should stay. That doesn't sound logical. It sounds more of a con.

 

There was a top secret report release a few years ago due to the 25 years or whatever thing. It said that Scotland would be at least 20% per capita richer if we were independent. That's why they made it top secret. Funny how they keep peddling the myth that Scotland would be much worse off.

 

Seems to me that the worst case scenario is that we're no better off economically but would at least have control of affairs.

 

Many of the barriers and scaremongering put forward by the English based parties are easily surmountable - we can still collaborate as close countries.

 

I'm ambivalent about independence, maybe more so as I live in England but there has been far more shit been said in opposition of independence than that for it.

 

When you start to ask why that is and the motivational factors above, you really have to wonder if the opposition have the slightest case at all except for the upheaval of change and the risk of the unknown.

[simplythebest 0]

SNP's argument makes the most sense motivationally.

 

SNP say Scotland will be better off so want to leave. That's pretty logical.

 

English opposition says we'll be worse off, therefore England will be better off, so we should stay. That doesn't sound logical. It sounds more of a con.

 

There was a top secret report release a few years ago due to the 25 years or whatever thing. It said that Scotland would be at least 20% per capita richer if we were independent. That's why they made it top secret. Funny how they keep peddling the myth that Scotland would be much worse off.

 

Seems to me that the worst case scenario is that we're no better off economically but would at least have control of affairs.

 

Many of the barriers and scaremongering put forward by the English based parties are easily surmountable - we can still collaborate as close countries.

 

I'm ambivalent about independence, maybe more so as I live in England but there has been far more shit been said in opposition of independence than that for it.

 

When you start to ask why that is and the motivational factors above, you really have to wonder if the opposition have the slightest case at all except for the upheaval of change and the risk of the unknown.

 

The Yes side has done plenty of scaremongering.