calscot 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 What is a "united Ireland"? Is that like a united Korea? Should Haiti and Dominican Republic unite just because they share an island? It always seems to me that the real problem is that Irish are just bad losers. Most territory is owned by winning battles and settling there over generations, so why should this be different? Should Germany start claiming back territory they used to own last century? They've already tried that once, it didn't go down well. Should we be bombing France to get Normandy back? Every country has changed it's territory and size. There is a time just to live with what you have. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 173 Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Go on then, I'll bite. What is a 'British' identity? How are we any more or less 'British' than Plymouth Argyle, Hartlepool, Wrexham or Threave Rovers? Being 'British' is first and foremost a geographic distinction but what are the other constructs put on top of it? As someone who is uncomfortable with all types of nationalism I find 'British' nationalism as baffling as Scottish nationalism frankly. Why do we need to fly flags or sing songs to prove this 'British identity', surely it is self-evident by virtue of being on the island of Great Britain? Are other clubs who don't openly display "our song repertoire,symbolism and flags" less British? I say this as someone who is at least nominally Presbyterian, Scottish, British and broadly in favour of the 'union', why do we need to celebrate any of these things at a football match? I genuinely find this need to use football as an expression of identity as baffling and wholly misplaced. I think our British identity is reflected in our songs and symbolism - many of our songs are popular British anthems and the flag you see most commonly on display at Ibrox is the Union Flag. Its probably why guys like Jeff Randall referred to us as - "the quintissential British club" I dont think I ever alluded to us being any more ( or less for that matter) British than Hartlepool or Plymouth Argyle . 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real PapaBear 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 The Yes side has done plenty of scaremongering. There you go again. making nonsensical statements, with no proof to back them up. You know, if you make statements of opinion as if they were facts, and are then unable to back up those statements it only makes you look foolish. I ask, more in hope than expectation, but give us examples of the "plenty of scaremongering by the Yes campaign". If this scaremongering has been so plentiful, examples will be easy to find, surely. I asked you previously to provide one single example of the anti-Englishness you claimed was being pushed by the Yes campaign. Just one. I haven't heard back from you on that. Any chance of an example - just one, will do - any time soon? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 There you go again. making nonsensical statements, with no proof to back them up. You know, if you make statements of opinion as if they were facts, and are then unable to back up those statements it only makes you look foolish. I ask, more in hope than expectation, but give us examples of the "plenty of scaremongering by the Yes campaign". If this scaremongering has been so plentiful, examples will be easy to find, surely. I asked you previously to provide one single example of the anti-Englishness you claimed was being pushed by the Yes campaign. Just one. I haven't heard back from you on that. Any chance of an example - just one, will do - any time soon? If i give you any examples you'll just patronise and claim they aren't true anyway. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Here's some scaremongering by the no vote: You'll need a passport to get to England due to border control. We'll be thrown out of the EC and NATO. Not being in the EC means we will be subjected to import and export taxes with EC member states including England. Freight won't be able to travel through England cutting off supplies. Most of the oil is in English waters according to weird maps. The oil is almost gone. Without oil we have no exports. Without the Barnett formula Scottish taxes will rise dramatically. We won't be able to use the pound and will have to join the Euro or invent our own money which won't be hard currency. Without Westminster to bail us out we'll have a poor credit rating. Etc, etc, etc. That's just off the top of my head. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If i give you any examples you'll just patronise and claim they aren't true anyway. Why even mention it then? Doesn't sound that you have a strong case that you can defend. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Why even mention it then? Doesn't sound that you have a strong case that you can defend. Clearly you haven't seen TRPB's debating style. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 The problem with the no vote is that it mainly relies on telling us how shit we are and how much we rely on England looking after us. The other argument is that things are great the way they are - but when you ask people about the state of our nation, not many are complimentary. So the no vote campaign just comes across as a complete con. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Here's some scaremongering by the no vote: You'll need a passport to get to England due to border control. We'll be thrown out of the EC and NATO. Not being in the EC means we will be subjected to import and export taxes with EC member states including England. Freight won't be able to travel through England cutting off supplies. Most of the oil is in English waters according to weird maps. The oil is almost gone. Without oil we have no exports. Without the Barnett formula Scottish taxes will rise dramatically. We won't be able to use the pound and will have to join the Euro or invent our own money which won't be hard currency. Without Westminster to bail us out we'll have a poor credit rating. Etc, etc, etc. That's just off the top of my head. How about with a no vote Westminster will try and abolish the Scottish Parliament? Despite there actually being plans to increase devolution powers. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I've not heard that one but it's obvious it's in the Tory ethos. you can't do a big campaign against devolution and then say you'll never reverse it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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