A dinosaur rears it's head

[simplythebest 0]

I do get where you're coming from but I think you have to widen it out a bit. Expand it beyond England.

 

Do you see yourself as different from a resident of Marseilles or Mannheim or Milan? Do you think they want anything different, essentially, to what we and the English want? Clearly not. So using the argument of "we're all basically the same", whilst true, doesn't really get us anywhere. The question is, how can we best achieve what we want to achieve for our country and our children? I believe it is by becoming an independent nation, in charge of our own priorities and building our own culture.

 

If you believe that our childrens' needs are best served by tying ourselves to England; fair enough. I'd love to go through the reasons why this is not the case - albeit in a different forum.

The union is hundreds of years old, it didn't happen yesterday.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Hypocrisy is them playing themselves up as some sort of socialist angels who don't hold any prejudices, yet the point of their whole existence is to promote separatism and break up a union of hundreds of years. Hooray for them letting Polish immigrants vote (I've nothing against immigrants before you start on that), but someone can have lived in Scotland their whole life and just had to recently move down South for work reasons perhaps, yet can't get a say, seems awfully flawed to me especially for this 'all inclusive' government.

 

The nationalities and the political labels of the people involved wasn't the point (not that I doubt nationalists were involved), it happened in Scotland's capital and Alex Salmond refused the opportunity to condemn it irrespective of whatever disagreements there may be on the politics. All inclusive welcoming Scotland indeed. Also, if Farage is a xenophobe for wanting to leave the EU what does that make the SNP for wanting to leave the UK?

 

First, it is possible to promote and desire independence without holding prejudices.

Second, give me one example of the SNP "playing themselves up as some sort of socialist angels" whatever the hell that means.

Third, if someone moves for work, tough. The inclusivity of the government means that if they so choose, they can vote here.

Fourth, Scotland, generally has a low tolerance level for bigots, xenophobes and racists. Why should Scotland's first minister comment if Farage wanders into an environment to which he is ill suited and about which he knows sweet fuck all.

Fifth, you've got Farage's xenophobia back to front. Farage is not a xenophobe because he wants to leave the EU. He wants to leave the EU because he's a xenophobe.

The desire to leave the EU in itself doesn't mean he's a xenophobe, it just means he's a fucking moron.

[forlanssister 3,060]

First, it is possible to promote and desire independence without holding prejudices.

Second, give me one example of the SNP "playing themselves up as some sort of socialist angels" whatever the hell that means.

Third, if someone moves for work, tough. The inclusivity of the government means that if they so choose, they can vote here.

Fourth, Scotland, generally has a low tolerance level for bigots, xenophobes and racists. Why should Scotland's first minister comment if Farage wanders into an environment to which he is ill suited and about which he knows sweet fuck all.

Fifth, you've got Farage's xenophobia back to front. Farage is not a xenophobe because he wants to leave the EU. He wants to leave the EU because he's a xenophobe.

The desire to leave the EU in itself doesn't mean he's a xenophobe, it just means he's a fucking moron.

 

Oh the irony.

 

Sadly at present the only way we can leave the intrinsically evil EU is if we vote for independence since Scotland is only a member of the EU by the virtue of the Union.

 

F*&king Moron Loyal.

[simplythebest 0]

First, it is possible to promote and desire independence without holding prejudices.

Second, give me one example of the SNP "playing themselves up as some sort of socialist angels" whatever the hell that means.

Third, if someone moves for work, tough. The inclusivity of the government means that if they so choose, they can vote here.

Fourth, Scotland, generally has a low tolerance level for bigots, xenophobes and racists. Why should Scotland's first minister comment if Farage wanders into an environment to which he is ill suited and about which he knows sweet fuck all.

Fifth, you've got Farage's xenophobia back to front. Farage is not a xenophobe because he wants to leave the EU. He wants to leave the EU because he's a xenophobe.

The desire to leave the EU in itself doesn't mean he's a xenophobe, it just means he's a fucking moron.

It's possible but I know the senses I get from this independence campaign. Anti-English, anti-British stuff is rife, the leader of the Yes campaign is pushing for a republic now.

 

Well I was sort of going by your own words about how brilliant Scottish nationalism is and how horrible British nationalism is.

 

It may be tough, I just don't think it's right.

 

I disagree about Scotland's big morals you seem to be playing up, what our friends in the East End get away with being a prime example. Not as if that's the point though, Farage is the leader of a legitimate political party in the UK and has the right to go to places and have a say, the floor is there for people to put up sensible disagreement. The First Minister should naturally be condemning loutish behaviour especially if we're trying to play up Scotland as welcoming and all inclusive.

 

I assume you know a lot about the guy to come to this conclusion? UKIP don't especially appeal to me but the hard lefties just seem to automatically put them down as another version of the BNP when they clearly aren't.

Edited July 29, 2013 by simplythebest

[Thinker 887]

I do get where you're coming from ubut I think you have to widen it out a bit. Expand it beyond England.

 

Do you see yourself as different from a resident of Marseilles or Mannheim or Milan? Do you think they want anything different, essentially, to what we and the English want? Clearly not. So using the argument of "we're all basically the same", whilst true, doesn't really get us anywhere. The question is, how can we best achieve what we want to achieve for our country and our children? I believe it is by becoming an independent nation, in charge of our own priorities and building our own culture.

 

If you believe that our childrens' needs are best served by tying ourselves to England; fair enough. I'd love to go through the reasons why this is not the case - albeit in a different forum.

 

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, yes I do consider myself to be more different from a Frenchman or an Italian than an Englishman. I've travelled a fair amount and I've had plenty of uni friends, flatmates and a few girlfriends from the continent and further afield but while you're right that we fundamentally all want the same things, we don't have anywhere like the same cultural overlap.

 

When I chat to someone else from another part of the UK, we can reminisce about the same experiences. We were chuffed when Andy won Wimbledon or Paula won the marathon. I can refer to "fork 'andles" or the man with the stick and they'll know what I mean. Our grandads may have done their national service alongside each other. We speak the same language. We both went to Alton Towers with school.

 

We share a common British culture and it's one I like.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Thinker

[simplythebest 0]

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, yes I do consider myself to be more different from a Frenchman or an Italian than Englishman. I've travelled a fair amount and I've had plenty of uni friends, flatmates and a few girlfriends from the continent and further afield but while you're right that we fundamentally all want the same things, we don't have anywhere like the same cultural overlap.

 

When I chat to someone else from another part of the UK, we can reminisce about the same experiences. We were chuffed when Andy won Wimbledon or Paula won the marathon. I can refer To "fork 'andles" or the man with the stick and they'll know what I mean. Our grandad's may have done their national service alongside each other. We speak the same language.

Anyone who seriously sees England as a foreign country like France or something is the worst kind of bigoted nationalist.

[pete 2,499]

You've been in Holland since the 90s correct? Bit different to the type of thing i'm thinking of.

 

1980! Showing my age.

 

I think the thing is if you are set up permanently or temporarily. If you have chosen to live in England on a permanent base then even if you are only a month away it should still take your qualification for a vote away. As I said people who are working abroad temporarily or in a professional position such as an ambassador of a country should be allowed a vote

[Thinker 887]

Anyone who seriously sees England as a foreign country like France or something is the worst kind of bigoted nationalist.

 

I don't think it makes them a bigot, but it's just not an accurate view of things.

[simplythebest 0]

I don't think it makes them a bigot, but it's just not an accurate view of things.

 

I disagree, our strong partnerships and social connections are clear, even the SNP say we'll always be tied to the rest of Britain.

 

Sadly you get some Scots that are William Wallace wannabees.

[simplythebest 0]

1980! Showing my age.

 

I think the thing is if you are set up permanently or temporarily. If you have chosen to live in England on a permanent base then even if you are only a month away it should still take your qualification for a vote away. As I said people who are working abroad temporarily or in a professional position such as an ambassador of a country should be allowed a vote

Bloody hell, do you even sound Scottish now?

 

Can only disagree, I certainly think there are situations where people should be able to vote even if they don't currently have an address in Scotland, this is such a big lifetime decision.