Ibrox: Jurassic Park?

[54andcounting 0]

If THEY do it, we'll do it even better.

 

If THEY get one on us, we'll try harder still.

 

F**kin swings and roundabouts that has nowt to do with Rangers.

 

Rule Britannia and GSTQ? C'mon...it's a bit pishy lads, and time we cut it out ffs!

[barca72 440]

If THEY do it, we'll do it even better.

 

If THEY get one on us, we'll try harder still.

 

F**kin swings and roundabouts that has nowt to do with Rangers.

 

Rule Britannia and GSTQ? C'mon...it's a bit pishy lads, and time we cut it out ffs!

 

If you don't like it don't sing it. I would say that for 141 years the fans have got most of it right. They were blindsided by the decision on the Billy Boys, but they will figure it out and come back stronger. Loud and Proud. WATP.

[Frankie 8,200]

It's a well written piece and I'm glad someone as knowledgeable as Andy has taken the time to put together a reasoned counter-argument to those that want to retain some of the more controversial (though also recognised and enjoyed) aspects of the Rangers support.

 

FWIW, I think people on both sides of the argument tend to over-react about the subject. I'm no loyalist but I can't deny that I enjoy singing many of those songs. I would consider myself a Unionist and a Monarchist but while I enjoy those songs as well, I don't sing them because I feel the need to impose my politics on other fans but merely because I enjoy the camaraderie of sharing an outlook with thousands of people who are like me.

 

Is a football match the right place for this? Well, no; probably not but where else would you sing such songs. At your local gala; at election polling centres; outside my work; in the street: at church? Maybe but not without as much as (or probably much bigger) look of puzzlement as I would singing them at Ibrox.

 

You know what - football used to be fun. Yes, some songs are distasteful, out of date and probably irrelevant. But that's part of the daft nature of being a football fan - turning up half-p!ssed to a game, moaning at a referee because your players are crap and singing unintelligible songs to opposing fans who're equally drunk. As such, I really don't understand the reasoning behind those who want to remove it.

[der Berliner 3,357]

Slightly off topic, but the 'family section' at the Parkhead is directly above the green brigade tier (which is heading for closure)

 

May I cynically asked whether this is intended schooling of some kind?

 

In the day and age of these "Ultras" (no insult intended, btw), it is much easier to "organize" a change or expansion of the songbook. Maybe that is a way forward, if these lads and gals get together with the supporters' clubs et al.

[andy steel 0]

FWIW, I think people on both sides of the argument tend to over-react about the subject. I'm no loyalist but I can't deny that I enjoy singing many of those songs. I would consider myself a Unionist and a Monarchist but while I enjoy those songs as well, I don't sing them because I feel the need to impose my politics on other fans but merely because I enjoy the camaraderie of sharing an outlook with thousands of people who are like me.

 

Is a football match the right place for this? Well, no; probably not but where else would you sing such songs. At your local gala; at election polling centres; outside my work; in the street: at church? Maybe but not without as much as (or probably much bigger) look of puzzlement as I would singing them at Ibrox.

 

You know what - football used to be fun. Yes, some songs are distasteful, out of date and probably irrelevant. But that's part of the daft nature of being a football fan - turning up half-p!ssed to a game, moaning at a referee because your players are crap and singing unintelligible songs to opposing fans who're equally drunk. As such, I really don't understand the reasoning behind those who want to remove it.

 

That raises a few questions. Firstly, am I and every other Bear who does not share the views you and the 1000's of others hold so unworthy of respect that their opinions are just shrugged off? Is it really the case that at Ibrox if you don't fit the stereotype you can either like it or lump it? Are we only to draw our future fanbase from one and one constituency only, those people who tick all the boxes? It's just a manners thing in the end imo - from where I'm sitting it seems a wee corner of the ground think they have the right to foist their views on non-footballing subjects on everyone else and if they don't like it, they can sod off.

 

Again, not very Presbyterian or even very traditionally British, and spectacularly unfraternal.

 

Numbers aren't really what I mean - even if it could be proven to me that in a crowd of 43,000, 42,998 agreed on one thing and only me & my son differed, I'd still think that as fellow Bears we'd be worthy of consideration. I would stand shoulder to shoulder with even the most Orange of Bears if he was up against a crowd - I think sometimes the reverse would not be true, because I somehow don't belong quite as much.

 

You ask where else you could sing such songs. Well, the Conservative Party is quite good at organising such song fests. You could join your local BB and not only help develop a new generation with the values some hold dear, you could have as much singing as you like at parades, services and so on. Monarchists have been blessed with multiple occasions to get the bunting up in recent years, only the blind or deaf could have missed the wedding/birth/jubilee celebrations and without wishing to be morbid, they're going to have the passing of Phillip soon and a coronation shortly afterwards to look forward to, if that's the right expression.

 

Lack of somewhere else is not a very strong reason, in all honesty.

 

Maybe this is an age thing because I certainly didn't worry about this when I was a teenager/early 20's. The threat of punishment to the club was enough to get me thinking we were on the wrong lines and the experience of taking my boy to the ground and coming away unsure whether I wanted him to go back was very chastening. Football used to be fun for me too, but then again I used to be 17.

Edited February 23, 2017 by andy steel

[Frankie 8,200]

That raises a few questions. Firstly, am I and every other Bear who does not share the views you and the 1000's of others hold so unworthy of respect that their opinions are just shrugged off? Is it really the case that at Ibrox if you don't fit the stereotype you can either like it or lump it? Are we only to draw our future fanbase from one and one constituency only, those people who tick all the boxes? It's just a manners thing in the end imo - from where I'm sitting it seems a wee corner of the ground think they have the right to foist their views on non-footballing subjects on everyone else and if they don't like it, they can fuck off.

 

Again, not very Presbyterian or even very traditionally British, and spectacularly unfraternal.

 

Numbers aren't really what I mean - even if it could be proven to me that in a crowd of 43,000, 42,998 agreed on one thing and only me & my son differed, I'd still think that as fellow Bears we'd be worthy of consideration. I would stand shoulder to shoulder with even the most Orange of Bears if he was up against a crowd - I think sometimes the reverse would not be true, because I somehow don't belong quite as much.

 

You ask where else you could sing such songs. Well, the Conservative Party is quite good at organising such song fests. You could join your local BB and not only help develop a new generation with the values some hold dear, you could have as much singing as you like at parades, services and so on. Monarchists have been blessed with multiple occasions to get the bunting up in recent years, only the blind or deaf could have missed the wedding/birth/jubilee celebrations and without wishing to be morbid, they're going to have the passing of Phillip soon and a coronation shortly afterwards to look forward to, if that's the right expression.

 

Lack of somewhere else is not a very strong reason, in all honesty.

 

Maybe this is an age thing because I certainly didn't worry about this when I was a teenager/early 20's. The threat of punishment to the club was enough to get me thinking we were on the wrong lines and the experience of taking my boy to the ground and coming away unsure whether I wanted him to go back was very chastening. Football used to be fun for me too, but then again I used to be 17.

 

I'm not shrugging off your (or anyone else's) opinion. I'm just, to a certain extent at least, disagreeing with it.

 

Rangers fans sing songs at Rangers games. Some are directly associated with the club, some indirectly but I find the vast majority of either type fun to sing and a reflection of camaraderie and banter as opposed to the politics held by each individual - or indeed as a collective.

 

I think some of both sides take the issue of songs far too seriously.

[calscot 0]

I'm not shrugging off your (or anyone else's) opinion. I'm just, to a certain extent at least, disagreeing with it.

 

Rangers fans sing songs at Rangers games. Some are directly associated with the club, some indirectly but I find the vast majority of either type fun to sing and a reflection of camaraderie and banter as opposed to the politics held by each individual - or indeed as a collective.

 

I think some of both sides take the issue of songs far too seriously.

 

The problem with this argument is that if it were completely true, then you would all have no problem changing the words when the offensive ones are no longer considered banter but are regarded by most of society as sinister and dangerous. It shows a lack of sensitivity to the values of the rest of Europe and for the precarious position it puts our club in as Europe decides not to stand for it.

 

Why is it not enough to be up to your knees in Celtic blood or some other Celtic soubriquet that cannot be associated with a religion or nationality? Surely they are the targets of the banter?

 

As they say, if it was racist stuff against blacks or Jews, would you find it just as enjoyable? When good men do nothing and all that...

[Frankie 8,200]

The problem with this argument is that if it were completely true, then you would all have no problem changing the words when the offensive ones are no longer considered banter but are regarded by most of society as sinister and dangerous. It shows a lack of sensitivity to the values of the rest of Europe and for the precarious position it puts our club in as Europe decides not to stand for it.

 

Why is it not enough to be up to your knees in Celtic blood or some other Celtic soubriquet that cannot be associated with a religion or nationality? Surely they are the targets of the banter?

 

As they say, if it was racist stuff against blacks or Jews, would you find it just as enjoyable? When good men do nothing and all that...

 

We actually went further than that. We stopped singing the song.

 

Do/did people mean catholic when they use/used the word fen!an? Yeah, I'm sure many did but I'm also sure many more didn't.

 

By and large the really offensive stuff dies a death because the good men don't sing it. When stuff does stand the test of time then there's clearly good reason for it rather than just the media-led crap about bigotry.

[andy steel 0]

Maybe I do take it too seriously.

 

But when I see teams half our size sponsored by global brands such as Toyota or Pepsi, and the OF get some cider, it suggests that we have something wrong with us, or at least our image, which sends marketing men for real companies - the ones our size as a club ought to be attracting - running a mile.

 

And the prevention of Rangers growth into what it could be, with the fanbase it has, frustrates me enormously.

 

Afraid we'll have to disagree on the songbook. I can't see how we can sing eg 'Rule Brittania' & not be aware of its political ramifications. While 'No Surrender' has, imo, transcended its origins and become a song of rock solid support for the team when losing, some of the other songs most certainly have not, esp. in the current political climate of Scotland.

[calscot 0]

We actually went further than that. We stopped singing the song.

 

After is was banned by UEFA and the club - if you had been pro-active, you'd still be singing it with a couple of different words. Massive own goal which is nothing to give anyone credit for.

 

Do/did people mean catholic when they use/used the word fen!an? Yeah, I'm sure many did but I'm also sure many more didn't.

 

I agree but I also think the same of many words that people take mock offence to - like the one Green used without malice. However, if you're even half clever you can avoid the very obvious faux pas that life can present.

 

If you don't mean it then why is it important to keep singing it when it should be interchangeable with a word that is not misconstrued? You seem to be arguing against yourself.

 

By and large the really offensive stuff dies a death because the good men don't sing it. When stuff does stand the test of time then there's clearly good reason for it rather than just the media-led crap about bigotry.

 

Like F T P and F*enian Bastards? What is the good reason for it?