Kenny Miller Completes Rangers Hat-trick

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

If you're talking about youth being given a chance, then you can't count players like that who Dortmund developed at youth level, but then released or allowed to leave for virtually nothing at a relatively young age, only to be buying the pair of them back for a 24 million Euros after other clubs have given them a chance and developed them further.

 

 

 

I don't have an issue with clubs buying in the best young talent they can get their hands on (including ourselves!) because that's what top clubs need to do, but that's where your arguments here fall flat on their face because Rangers can't afford to spend 3, 4 or 5 million+ on a 16 to 21 yr old these days, so our best young talent appears to be normally coming right through Murray Park from a very young age.

 

MacLeod and Telfer are two such players where one has 'made it' and broken through, while the other hasn't, but let's not forget that Telfer is younger than MacLeod, so I'd argue that if Telfer had stayed at Rangers he'd maybe have had a good chance of breaking through, but now we'll never know....

The key factor is playing young players who can develop and improve, not veterans who will only regress and were never of much use in the first place. Whether we develop the players ourselves or sign them from other SPL clubs (or elsewhere) it doesn't really matter, though the former would be preferable. Such players are not likely to cost many millions bar the odd exception, particularly if signed young enough.

 

With regard to Sahin, Dortmund made a decent profit on him even after buying him back. Reus might have been costly to resign but he is still a player they developed. Perhaps he might not be the player he is today had be not been at BVB in his development.

[Super Cooper 0]

It's almost impossible to judge players under McCoist as he just casts such a huge negative black cloud over every single one of them. One cannot and should not underestimate the negative effect he has on individual players and the team as a whole.

[Rangersitis 0]

It's almost impossible to judge players under McCoist as he just casts such a huge negative black cloud over every single one of them. One cannot and should not underestimate the negative effect he has on individual players and the team as a whole.

 

I'm not his greatest fan, but the problem, albeit self-inflicted, started with the standard of player he brought in. The phrase 'You can't polish a turd' springs to mind.

[Super Cooper 0]

I'm not his greatest fan, but the problem, albeit self-inflicted, started with the standard of player he brought in. The phrase 'You can't polish a turd' springs to mind.

 

I don't believe our players are anywhere near as bad as their performances of the last 3 year have shown mate. They can't ALL be 'that' bad.

 

Almost every player that he has come in contact with has regressed and looked completely hopeless.

[Zappa 0]

The key factor is playing young players who can develop and improve, not veterans who will only regress and were never of much use in the first place. Whether we develop the players ourselves or sign them from other SPL clubs (or elsewhere) it doesn't really matter, though the former would be preferable. Such players are not likely to cost many millions bar the odd exception, particularly if signed young enough.

 

The 'key factor' for the coming season is NOT for us to develop youth. As Cammy has pointed out to you, it's getting out of these lower leagues and back into the top flight.

 

Regarding developing and buying players I agree that we should be bringing through as many quality youth players as possible and although it's maybe a slightly touchy subject at Murray Park, I'm also an advocate of buying in top quality youths and youngsters.

 

The problem is though, that we don't have the money to gamble on buying quality youths at the moment. Money has been spent buying in young players at Murray Park, but nothing too serious despite the amount reportedly wasted under Jim Sinclair.

 

In today's game, our Club needs to get to a point where we can actually afford to spend 2,3 or 4 million on a top class 16 to 20 yr old and see it as a good investment, but that's where we need seriously clued-up & well-connected scouts.

 

The bottom line though, is that we have indeed brought through a few youngsters so far on this journey back to the top. It's maybe not been enough for everyone's taste, but we've definitely done it.

 

There's very little point in looking back at the past couple of seasons in the lower tiers and saying we should have done this and done that, philosophy this and philosophy that because it's not relevant any more. If we had appointed a new manager that talked about Barca-style football philosophies, but failed to produce league-winning results like so many cunning and brilliant failures do, then we might not even be in the 2nd tier this season.

 

With regard to Sahin, Dortmund made a decent profit on him even after buying him back. Reus might have been costly to resign but he is still a player they developed. Perhaps he might not be the player he is today had be not been at BVB in his development.

 

I think you're scraping the barrel here. If we had to take a closer look at the other clubs you mentioned, I'm sure it wouldn't be all bright and rosy in their respective youth development worlds because as I said previously, the top clubs, even those renowned for bringing through youngsters, are actually buying a lot of them in for huge fees these days.

[Rangersitis 0]

I don't believe our players are anywhere near as bad as their performances of the last 3 year have shown mate. They can't ALL be 'that' bad.

 

Almost every player that he has come in contact with has regressed and looked completely hopeless.

 

It all boils down to expectations I suppose. There will always be a sense of disappointment until they are lowered significantly. I don't think a good manager would get that much out of that group of players, but then again, a good manager wouldn't have gone down that particular route.

 

Too many got caught up in this romantic notion that playing in the third and working up would be a great adventure and that normal service would be resumed post haste. It won't, too much ground has been lost for that.

 

Sure, the domestic scene will eventually return to the two-horse race that it always has been but the gulf with the rest of Europe has widened to such an extent that it will take an extraordinary group of players and a very capable manager to bridge it.

[Rangersitis 0]

The 'key factor' for the coming season is NOT for us to develop youth. As Cammy has pointed out to you, it's getting out of these lower leagues and back into the top flight.

 

I understand the point being made, but then it will be because of the need to do well in the top league, then needing to win the league, then needing to be strong for Europe. And so it will go on.

 

These excuses have been trotted out for years now when what was needed was someone brave enough to give it a go.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

It's almost impossible to judge players under McCoist as he just casts such a huge negative black cloud over every single one of them. One cannot and should not underestimate the negative effect he has on individual players and the team as a whole.

I've yet to see a manager remotely as incompetent as him. I firmly believe the players could select themselves and there would be no ill effect.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

The 'key factor' for the coming season is NOT for us to develop youth. As Cammy has pointed out to you, it's getting out of these lower leagues and back into the top flight.

 

Regarding developing and buying players I agree that we should be bringing through as many quality youth players as possible and although it's maybe a slightly touchy subject at Murray Park, I'm also an advocate of buying in top quality youths and youngsters.

 

The problem is though, that we don't have the money to gamble on buying quality youths at the moment. Money has been spent buying in young players at Murray Park, but nothing too serious despite the amount reportedly wasted under Jim Sinclair.

 

In today's game, our Club needs to get to a point where we can actually afford to spend 2,3 or 4 million on a top class 16 to 20 yr old and see it as a good investment, but that's where we need seriously clued-up & well-connected scouts.

 

The bottom line though, is that we have indeed brought through a few youngsters so far on this journey back to the top. It's maybe not been enough for everyone's taste, but we've definitely done it.

 

There's very little point in looking back at the past couple of seasons in the lower tiers and saying we should have done this and done that, philosophy this and philosophy that because it's not relevant any more. If we had appointed a new manager that talked about Barca-style football philosophies, but failed to produce league-winning results like so many cunning and brilliant failures do, then we might not even be in the 2nd tier this season.

 

 

 

I think you're scraping the barrel here. If we had to take a closer look at the other clubs you mentioned, I'm sure it wouldn't be all bright and rosy in their respective youth development worlds because as I said previously, the top clubs, even those renowned for bringing through youngsters, are actually buying a lot of them in for huge fees these days.

Getting promoted next season should be a formality considering we will have a wage bill dwarfing most of the league put together. We should be winning most games by cricket scores. People forget how terrible the SPL is, let alone the levels below it. The players the SPL generally attract are bottom level English league types.

 

I don't see why this has to be so dichotomous by the way, we should be easily capable of winning the league with at least a few youngsters playing regularly. Why is it seen that either we can win the league or play youth? If anything I'd imagine some of our u20's are more talented than duds like Daly, McCulloch, Foster, Faure and Moshni. With the right development our youngsters will only improve with regularly first team action.

 

I don't really care about next season, what I care about is where we are in 5, 10 years time. I want to see us regularly aiming for the last 16 in the CL, and a club of our size should be capable of such. All I want to see is us performing to the level we should be. Ibrox could probably easily sell 100000 tickets for an OF or CL match. A club capable of such should not be playing pitiful football or getting regularly horsed by minnows in Europe as we do.

 

As for the other clubs I mentioned, Ajax's youth development is well documented, Barca could pretty much play an XI of world class players (or there about), Napoli like Dortmund like to get young players in cheap and Porto are basically the perfect model we should be basing ourselves on for transfers. Though the South American loophole benefits them.

 

PS - I don't think 'Barca style philosophies' should be mentioned here, because I hold no hope for that. I'd be happy just to have us being capable of retaining possession for more than 3 passes at a time and having a modicum of technique in attack. Even just passing the ball as if it wasn't shaped like a potato would be a start.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Ser Barristan Selmy

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

By the way, when I said key factor, I was referring to the constructs of our argument regarding youths. But if by some bizarre scenario we had to spend 2 seasons in SFL1 meaning we would be all the better for it in 5 or 10 years time, then bring it on. I want to see us competing with the top teams in Europe like we in 92 and 72. Given the difference in wealth such an event will unlikely happen in my lifetime but a club of our size should easily be comparable to a club like Porto.

 

What is our recent record in Europe again, is it 2 or 3 wins in the last 23? That is an utter disgrace. You regularly criticise our board but the same incompetence is shared throughout our infrastructure.