One Scotland, Many Cultures & 2 Tier "Justice"

[The Real PapaBear 0]

I think your first point is semantics tbh - the definition of unexpected is not expected.

 

I disagree with your second point that we are to blame for others prejudices - I could make any analogue of religious or racial bigotry where we'd have to prove that we don't conform to a derogatory stereotype, surely that isn't what's right.

 

On the first point, it's really not semantics. (well, it is in the true meaning of the term, which is unfortunately not how it is widely used).

for example, If I get a Green party leaflet, or a UKIP leaflet through my door, it's not unexpected. However, given the size of both of those parties where i live, I'm not expecting them.

 

On the second, if you deny that we are at least partly responsible, then we ain't never gonna get nowhere.

[craig 5,195]

you keep saying that, but you haven't yet said with what it is you disagree. Are you claiming that we are not seen in this light by much of the rest of Scottish society?

 

Regardless, does that then give them the right to abuse ? Inclusive society.... I think not.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

So every Rangers supporter should be tarred with the same brush and it is acceptable ? So we are all knuckle-dragging sectarian bigots then ? That is exactly how your sentence above seems to be constructed.

 

Only if you fail to read it properly.

[craig 5,195]

Only if you fail to read it properly.

 

You yourself said "tarred with the same brush". When you use the term "are you surprised" it CAN have connotations of "you should have expected it" - granted that doesn't necessarily mean that it is acceptable - but I have still to see you actually say that it isn't acceptable, whilst pillorying (is that even a word) everything which is non-SNP.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Regardless, does that then give them the right to abuse ? Inclusive society.... I think not.

 

post 52, point 4.

 

Look guys, there's half a dozen of you. Do me a favour and read my replies to the others - it'll save me repeating the same stuff again and again.

 

Scotland is just about the most inclusive society on the face of the planet and citing a couple of eejits on twitter as some sort of proof that it isn't , is just ridiculous.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

You yourself said "tarred with the same brush". When you use the term "are you surprised" it CAN have connotations of "you should have expected it" - granted that doesn't necessarily mean that it is acceptable - but I have still to see you actually say that it isn't acceptable, whilst pillorying (is that even a word) everything which is non-SNP.

 

post 52, point 4.

[WATP_Greg 0]

On the first point, it's really not semantics. (well, it is in the true meaning of the term, which is unfortunately not how it is widely used).

for example, If I get a Green party leaflet, or a UKIP leaflet through my door, it's not unexpected. However, given the size of both of those parties where i live, I'm not expecting them.

 

On the second, if you deny that we are at least partly responsible, then we ain't never gonna get nowhere.

 

1. We've lost focus from the point - that you claim being a vocal Rangers supporter means you should be prepared for abuse from political party supporters - that shouldn't be part and parcel of being a Rangers Supporter imo.

 

2. What am I responsible for in drawing abuse from a political party's supporters?

Edited May 6, 2015 by WATP_Greg

[The Real PapaBear 0]

I would offer you this blog; detailing and bemoaning the facts of a case concerning the word 'hun' - and as you can see it comes from a CFC-supporting blog

 

http://www.celtic-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/scottish_football_fans_must_beware_of_the_hword_police_413448/index.shtml

 

"dirty horrible huns" - the words on a tee-shirt worn by the youth

 

"religiously aggravated breach of the peace" - what the sheriff found him guilty of

 

"the hun hordes have succesfully won their fight to have the term 'hun' deemed sectarian by the law of the land" - the author's conclusion.

 

This all took place in 2008, four years before the Act came in.

 

Now, remind me again if O'Hara said what he said in 2007 or 2008, or if he still supports a team, the fans of whom, weekly chant this kind of word at almost every game. This means that the laws were there and in effect when O'Hara used the language he did. Why he was not prosecuted , who knows?

 

I would remind you of D'Art's statement -

"I think most people, irrespective of party politics would see the utter hypocrisy of the SNP's action, or lack thereof, with regard to O'Hara."

 

A few weeks ago the SFA, have now officially stated that the use of the word 'hun' is offensive.

Whether O'Hara used the term 8 years ago, last week or perhaps one day in in the future in parliament; he like you, will still remember what he thinks in his mind when the term is remembered.

 

this took place a year after O'hara used the term. The laws covering what would now be an offence were not in place at the time and to compare the actions of a Timmy ned out actively looking for trouble with a twitter post is weak. O'hara wasn't prosecuted because he committed no offense: How hard is that to grasp?

[craig 5,195]

this took place a year after O'hara used the term. The laws covering what would now be an offence were not in place at the time and to compare the actions of a Timmy ned out actively looking for trouble with a twitter post is weak. O'hara wasn't prosecuted because he committed no offense: How hard is that to grasp?

 

Shouldn't he still be held to account though ? It may not have been outlawed back then but everyone knows it was a derogatory term, even back then, for Rangers fans. I'm as much about free speech as anyone (I think our world has gone way overboard on being politically correct) so am not coming at this from an angle of politics nor of having an agenda.

 

The SNP created the legislation and whilst the timeframe in which he said it there was no such legislation in place (I can definitely see where you are coming from) sometimes it doesn't need to be about the black and white of the law of the land - the mere fact that this seems to have become more high-profile in recent days would suggest that the SNP should be reprimanding him as it is bad publicity with comments made by one of their own candidates which is in breach of the legislation they put in place - again.... avoidance of doubt, I KNOW that when he said it there was no legislation in place, but that doesn't always become the determinant in actions from political parties.

 

Even though it would be harsh on him, often political parties need to be "seen to be beyond reproach" even when we know politics (from ALL sides) is a very dirty game.

[colinstein 294]

I think the tims have turned from Labour in droves since the SNP went for the Scheme vote. Fertile ground since Labour abandoned them for free market economics.

did you see the Green Brigade banner at Parkhead that said "tiocfaidh ar la 18/9/2014"....that was disturbing right enough

but maybe I'm reading too much timism into it

I went to the wee shop at the barras to buy some quinta brigada T shirts for when I'm in Spain. One of them had the starry plough on it. The guy behind the counter (he was one of us BTW) insisted it was a revolutionary symbol for socialism in Ireland and had nothing to do with the fascist republicanism supported by the Catholic Church that we see today. It has been hijacked by them.....I suppose like the Palestinian cause.

I couldn't bring myself to buy or wear it