Confirmed! Dave King passed as 'fit and proper' by SFA

[forlanssister 3,050]

Whether it was in place or not their inaction is something I will never be able to comprehend. They were well warned about Whyte & did nothing

 

So were the Rangers support and yet over 99% of them ignored the warnings and did nothing and repeated that with Green & Co.

[Bluedell 5,329]

Whether it was in place or not their inaction is something I will never be able to comprehend. They were well warned about Whyte & did nothing

 

I remember a lot of supposition but very little in respect of hard facts about Whyte when he took over. We can't expect the SFA to act when there is very little definitive.

[RANGERRAB 3,258]

I remember a lot of supposition but very little in respect of hard facts about Whyte when he took over. We can't expect the SFA to act when there is very little definitive.

 

PM & AJ were certainly definitive at the time IIRC

[Guest Ruth]

This guy (King) lasted for 13 years in such a fight. The initial payment was far, far less but because it dragged on for so long ... it got bigger and bigger. Last articles I read (googled Dave King Business SA) indicated that because SARS was now under investigation itself for illegal means of collecting information, he(King) could have fought longer and been cleared of all charges. However, he had already more than doubled or tripled what he paid with his new company and wanted to be able to put this stage behind him. Sort of shows a different type of personality than is currently being described by our press.

[Zappa 0]

Great first post back there Ruth! Welcome to Gersnet!

[pete 2,499]

Sometimes it can be interesting to go back to previous articles in order to discover where rumours seem to come from. With regards to this one ['the judge, cetris paribus, described him as "glib and mendacious liar"]. ( Originally Posted by BrahimHemdani) appears as far back as an article from Tuesday 19, 2011 and appears to be reprinted verbatim in today's issue of The Scotsman. What I find most interesting about this is the author of the article (Tom English) and the complete lack of reference as to where he got his quotes from. (the article is referenced above with a link .. by ian1964. Whenever quotations are used, typically there is a reference to go along with it, yet in this case there is none. One can assume that the quotation is ligit and came from a ligit source but that is only an assumption. It could quite as easily have come from a totally unrelated incident and have been said by the authors grand daughter for all the reader actually knows. Now, I am not as familiar with this Tom English guy as most of you guys are (having lived for a good many years in Canada) but, judging from the lack of credibility from the press here in Scotland that I have seen in the year since being back, and judging on the interview/debate from last night (my first opportunity to actually hear this guy), I would put about as much faith in his word as I would the gossip who used to live down the street from me in Canada. (aka none).

 

I think it is important, that when one does research on a particular person or topic, or even does a quick google search, that they hit -every link- rather than just the ones that appear to publish their own interpretations of events. With regards to King and this whole tax thing, there are quite a few opposing points of view from the popular ones here in the Scottish press, and these seem to put a different slant as to his character, ability to pay and his success as a business man. I found it particularly interesting to note how investigations into SARS itself, -could- have given King the mandate to defy all charges since there appears to be evidence that the evidence collected was done by illegal means. He chose to accept the events however, seemingly in favour of moving forward.

 

Regardless of the pro's or con's to this whole thing, the fact that a battle with the income tax people lasted for 13 years and came to a 'draw' conclusion (aka, SARS received money and King gets to continue on with business as normal) shows quite a few things about King; very good negotiation skills, tremendous tenacity . His business history shows him to be extremely capable with regards to growing a business successfully and a mindset that is equally or more than a match for those who would oppose him. Now, certainly, the nay-sayers at this point would be saying 'this can bite you in the ar***, what's to stop him just going back to SA and enjoying life there, but if you are like me at all and tend to believe the old adage that tigers don't change their stripes, then it would seem that he has plenty of opportunity to have done that already.

 

I am uncomfortable with pitting any single man into the role of a 'saviour' simply because of the fact that everyone is human and has faults and agendas and such. Putting people on a pedestal means invariably that they will one day fall off from that pedestal so to me, that begs for disappointment for all parties concerned. However, by keeping ones eyes open, and maintaining a clear mind and refraining from hyper, irrational thinking, I believe we are on the path to stable ground.

 

Welcome and excellent first post.

[Oleg_Mcnoleg 50]

Pity they didn't use it before Whyte got Rangers then. Or did they deliberately not apply it to Whyte? After all the SFA were well-warned about Whyte were they not?

There was a FAP test but it was a lot weaker. It basically said 'Are you fit and proper?' and Whyte ticked the box that said 'Aye. Pyoor fut n'proaper' and the SFA thought that'd do them.

[rbr 1,247]

Taken from the ruling ,and just for balance

 

The court had seen King testify for four days and “are unanimous in finding that he is a mendacious witness whose evidence should not be accepted on any issue unless it is supported by documents and other objective evidence”.

 

“It was remarkable that King showed no sign of embarrassment or any emotion when he conceded that he had lied to the (Sars) commissioner in a number of his income tax returns. In our assessment, he is a glib and shameless liar.”

Edited May 20, 2015 by rbr

[BrahimHemdani 1]

The fact that there was a question around King's FAP status but none around Whyte or Green or Ashley highlights the complete absurdity of the rules as they currently stand. But it wouldn't be the SFA if they didn't turn a laudable concern for their members' continued well-being into a total cake and arse party. The FAP test is designed to protect individual clubs and not as some sort of moral crusade. I would hope that nobody would give unquestioned support to any regime at Rangers. But the idea that, in terms of the best interests of Rangers, as an SFA member, King is somehow worse than the previous incumbents is, frankly, fucking ludicrous.

 

That's nonsense. There were questions about Whyte being fit and proper which the SFA pursued but allowed themselves to be fobbed off with spurious arguments and delays by his lawyers until it was too late.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Sometimes it can be interesting to go back to previous articles in order to discover where rumours seem to come from. With regards to this one ['the judge, cetris paribus, described him as "glib and mendacious liar"]. ( Originally Posted by BrahimHemdani) appears as far back as an article from Tuesday 19, 2011 and appears to be reprinted verbatim in today's issue of The Scotsman. What I find most interesting about this is the author of the article (Tom English) and the complete lack of reference as to where he got his quotes from. (the article is referenced above with a link .. by ian1964. Whenever quotations are used, typically there is a reference to go along with it, yet in this case there is none. One can assume that the quotation is ligit and came from a ligit source but that is only an assumption. It could quite as easily have come from a totally unrelated incident and have been said by the authors grand daughter for all the reader actually knows. Now, I am not as familiar with this Tom English guy as most of you guys are (having lived for a good many years in Canada) but, judging from the lack of credibility from the press here in Scotland that I have seen in the year since being back, and judging on the interview/debate from last night (my first opportunity to actually hear this guy), I would put about as much faith in his word as I would the gossip who used to live down the street from me in Canada. (aka none).

 

I think it is important, that when one does research on a particular person or topic, or even does a quick google search, that they hit -every link- rather than just the ones that appear to publish their own interpretations of events. With regards to King and this whole tax thing, there are quite a few opposing points of view from the popular ones here in the Scottish press, and these seem to put a different slant as to his character, ability to pay and his success as a business man. I found it particularly interesting to note how investigations into SARS itself, -could- have given King the mandate to defy all charges since there appears to be evidence that the evidence collected was done by illegal means. He chose to accept the events however, seemingly in favour of moving forward.

 

Regardless of the pro's or con's to this whole thing, the fact that a battle with the income tax people lasted for 13 years and came to a 'draw' conclusion (aka, SARS received money and King gets to continue on with business as normal) shows quite a few things about King; very good negotiation skills, tremendous tenacity . His business history shows him to be extremely capable with regards to growing a business successfully and a mindset that is equally or more than a match for those who would oppose him. Now, certainly, the nay-sayers at this point would be saying 'this can bite you in the ar***, what's to stop him just going back to SA and enjoying life there, but if you are like me at all and tend to believe the old adage that tigers don't change their stripes, then it would seem that he has plenty of opportunity to have done that already.

 

I am uncomfortable with pitting any single man into the role of a 'saviour' simply because of the fact that everyone is human and has faults and agendas and such. Putting people on a pedestal means invariably that they will one day fall off from that pedestal so to me, that begs for disappointment for all parties concerned. However, by keeping ones eyes open, and maintaining a clear mind and refraining from hyper, irrational thinking, I believe we are on the path to stable ground.

 

The quotations are just that they are not rumours in any way shape or form.

 

If you wish to read the whole case you will find it here http://www.politicsweb.co.za/documents/dave-king-a-mendacious-witness--tax-court

 

And it is summarised here http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/tax-court-labels-king-shameless-glib-liar-1.1027561#.VVySs_lViko from which I quote:

 

The tax court judgment dismissed the tax appeal of Ben Nevis against the income tax assessments issued by Sars in February 2002. Ben Nevis lodged an appeal against this judgment, but withdrew its appeal last week, which finally established the tax debt of Ben Nevis was R2.7bn.

 

Southwood said the court had seen King testify for four days and “are unanimous in finding that he is a mendacious witness whose evidence should not be accepted on any issue unless it is support by documents and other objective evidence”.

 

“It was remarkable that King showed no sign of embarrassment or any emotion when he conceded that he had lied to the (Sars) commissioner in a number of his income tax returns. In our assessment, he is a glib and shameless liar.”

Edited May 20, 2015 by BrahimHemdani