Rangers FC has withdrawn £40,000 worth of advertising revenue from The Herald

[JohnMc 2,473]

As for Carolyn Leckie I remain one of the few people to have read It's Rangers For Me? the book she wrote a chapter for.

I've said before, usually to no avail, but it's a good book and worth reading. One of the chapters in it is arguably one of the most powerful things ever written about being a Rangers supporter.

Anyway Carolyn Leckie didn't write that chapter, however the chapter she did write was actually quite good. She was a regular attender at matches, mainly with her brother. She came from a Gorbals family who were all in the Orange Order, her father being quite prominent in it locally. It was interesting that she wrote that her Socialism was created by her Orange background. For her it had been about community and family and she saw socialism that way too.

 

She explained that as she got older she drifted away from football and 'Orangism' eventually rejecting both, but that her family were still heavily involved. She made a good point about not being embarrassed about her background despite many people she met thinking she would be.

 

As for her article I've no idea why people are getting upset about it. It happened a long time ago, she didn't claim it happened last week. What's the problem?

[calscot 0]

C'mon Calscot, the power dynamic between men and women, even in supposedly enlightened societies like ours, makes that comparison a fallacy. You must be able to see that? I'm sure you're not suggesting that a women should be flattered when a man 'pinches her bum' but it kinda reads that way.

 

I'm not saying that women should be flattered - and I think we should be civilised enough these days for it not to happen. But it's a fallacy to say it's all men and framing it as some kind of heinous sexual assault for something 30 years ago and pointing the finger at Rangers fans is totally out of proportion.

 

A pretty apt analogy for it, is what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, but there is a problem here where heterosexuals only see offences from the other gender and so negatively generalise that gender.

 

You put a few men into a huge crowd of women and they will likely suffer a few minor bits of attention that could be an annoyance. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying it’s "people" at fault rather than blaming one specific gender as “the common denominator”.

 

All I’m saying is it happens to men also but pointed out that there is less offence taken and so less complaint, so much so it’s dismissed as nothing or laughable. That isn’t a very balanced viewpoint and unhelpful in moving society on.

 

 

A friend of mine attended a Rangers game with his girlfriend, this was back in the 90s. Whilst he was getting something to eat a crowd of young, male bluenoses started to chat to his girlfriend in Copland Road, just past the Subway. When she decided not to join in with their 'banter' or respond to their increasingly lurid comments they started to insult her, 'stuck up bitch' that type of thing. When my friend returned and realised what was happening they guys actually apologised, but to him, not her. One of them actually said, and I quote, "sorry mate, we'd never have said anything to her if we'd known she was with you"!

 

That's poor behaviour, but as I said, this could easily happen if the tables were turned. Maybe less likely, but most of us have been there and laughed it off.

 

There are dickheads in our society, some of them support Rangers.

 

I agree with that, and also that they can be of either gender.

[calscot 0]

PS If you want to see what it was like 50 years ago then watch Mad Men. The way women are treated in that is pretty horrendous - but maybe more in context to what happened at a football match 30-40 years ago, than pointing the finger at modern day Rangers fans.

[BEARGER 1,829]

Spoke to Carolyn again, she made these comments.

 

"I never even thought for a second it'd be interpreted as a go at rangers. It's just the way my particular experience happened."

 

"In fact I wrote a column a wee while back trying to get folk to be a bit more sophisticated in their attitude to rangers support.

It was in the context of why I thought it was the wrong move to ban orangefest."

[JohnMc 2,473]

I'm not saying that women should be flattered - and I think we should be civilised enough these days for it not to happen. But it's a fallacy to say it's all men and framing it as some kind of heinous sexual assault for something 30 years ago and pointing the finger at Rangers fans is totally out of proportion.

 

A pretty apt analogy for it, is what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, but there is a problem here where heterosexuals only see offences from the other gender and so negatively generalise that gender.

 

You put a few men into a huge crowd of women and they will likely suffer a few minor bits of attention that could be an annoyance. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying it’s "people" at fault rather than blaming one specific gender as “the common denominator”.

 

All I’m saying is it happens to men also but pointed out that there is less offence taken and so less complaint, so much so it’s dismissed as nothing or laughable. That isn’t a very balanced viewpoint and unhelpful in moving society on.

 

 

That's poor behaviour, but as I said, this could easily happen if the tables were turned. Maybe less likely, but most of us have been there and laughed it off.

 

No Calscot I'm not with you at all on this. Tell me, if you, as a man, were in a large crowd of other men and they started groping and touching you, how quickly would you laugh that off? The reality is Calscot that when these acts are carried out by men they carry an implicit threat of violence too. That's why the power dynamic is important in these scenarios. You probably could laugh off over amorous female attention because you know the likelihood of them turning violent or raping you is extremely low. However, that's not the case when the perpetrator is male.

 

Caroline Leckie, is not saying all men are violent or rapists, simply that when large crowds of men choose to harass a female it's a very unpleasant experience. Far more unpleasant than the opposite scenario.

 

 

I agree with that, and also that they can be of either gender.

 

Yes but in far fewer numbers and they are considerably less likely to hospitalise you if the mood takes them.