pete 2,499 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Calscot and Limeburner can you guy's cut out the crap. Just ignore each other and put your handbags away. It is better for the rest of us. If you still want to niggle each other do it in private. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,357 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Anyone paying Ian Black 8k a week should have been hunted the following day. Okay, SINCE WHEN did a Rangers manager had a hand in the weekly wages of a player? You can chase managers for the choice of players, but wages? And as for choice of players, that is such a subjective matter that much of any reasonable discussion goes out of the window, just think of Vuckic. BTW GS, the team went downhill in Ally's first season when the whole Whyte fiasco became apparent. You may perhaps blame him for the exit in Europe, but I tend to blame players rather than coaches first and foremost, in this case inept displays from e.g. Whittaker. But again, that is quite subjective ... and has been done to death by now. And no repeat will change your or my opinion on that, or make it "more" valid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,856 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Okay, SINCE WHEN did a Rangers manager had a hand in the weekly wages of a player? You can chase managers for the choice of players, but wages? And as for choice of players, that is such a subjective matter that much of any reasonable discussion goes out of the window, just think of Vuckic. BTW GS, the team went downhill in Ally's first season when the whole Whyte fiasco became apparent. You may perhaps blame him for the exit in Europe, but I tend to blame players rather than coaches first and foremost, in this case inept displays from e.g. Whittaker. But again, that is quite subjective ... and has been done to death by now. And no repeat will change your or my opinion on that, or make it "more" valid. Club executives are responsible for finalising agreements and signing contracts but a manager will have a financial budget to work within and will liase with executives regards player 'targets' and when applicable, during negotiations with club/player regards fee/salary and how it fits with overall plan (if there is one). Edited June 28, 2016 by buster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 While I agree we spent too much on certain players of an average standard, I think people tend to try to argue both sides of it. I don't think you can argue that they were worth much less and then complain that McCoist had as much bigger a budget than other managers than the accounts suggest. It's got to be one or the other. If the players weren't worth it then his budget was effectively much less. It also has to be recognised that we were a bit toxic at the time, were shopping for players in short period of time that were almost all free agents, and were playing in the lowest league. Good luck with getting good value for money in that scenario. The same paradoxical argument is used when saying McCoist had more money to spend than MW which means the latter was a better coach, but then argue Warburton had a better team. So you have to pick your criticism, as they are not mutually compatible. Either McCoist was bad at buying a team for the money, or he had great players who he caused to play crap. If you go for both, then McCoist had shit players and made them worse, and so the marginal difference in results by Warburton who had a much better team, once again, makes him look really poor, except that they are nice to watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Club executives are responsible for finalising agreements and signing contracts but a manager will have a financial budget to work within and will liase with executives regards player 'targets' and when applicable, during negotiations with club/player regards fee/salary and how it fits with overall plan (if there is one). There should be a plan but good luck with trying to implement one with the boards from Whyte to Llambias. With McCoist I think all plans had to go out the window, it was about coping from one crisis to the next. No one implements plans while they are "firefighting". It's all about damage limitation and getting back to square one intact. As I keep saying, we KNOW what happened but it's continually brushed under the carpet to continue the McCoist narrative. I also said at the end of the Whyte season that while it was terrible circumstances McCoist showed he didn't have the ability to keep the team winning, and we needed a manager who could - although I couldn't name one that I believe would be capable and still can't. We don't even know if MW could, and seeing as he was incapable of motivating the team due the most terrible crises of winning the league and beating Celtic on penalties [sic], therefore losing the most important single game of the season, it's pretty doubtful he could have coped with those much more real crises. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,357 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Club executives are responsible for finalising agreements and signing contracts but a manager will have a financial budget to work within and will liase with executives regards player 'targets' and when applicable, during negotiations with club/player regards fee/salary and how it fits with overall plan (if there is one). Fair enough, but lay blame on McCoist's doorstep that we paid Wallace, McCulloch and Co. what we paid them? Generally BTW, we have seen how teams started playing against us (like they all had their cup finals) after a while. We could have gone for potentially fabulous youngsters at the time, but do keep in mind, we were still playing in the 4th, 3rd or 2nd tier of the Scottish (i.e. SCOTTISH) game. Hundreds of these sure talented players were sure out there waiting for a call from Rangers FC ... not. Maybe one day in the future Ally McCoist MBE will tell us how his first couple of years as a manager went, whom he had as scouts, what his level of insight into the talent situation in England and Scotland was, what sort of influence he had on signings and which players were actually willing to come. I vividly remember us being linked to various talented Scots at the time, who went to English 2nd and 3rd tier sides instead. Until then, he will remain a sitting duck for his detractors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Okay, SINCE WHEN did a Rangers manager had a hand in the weekly wages of a player? You can chase managers for the choice of players, but wages? And as for choice of players, that is such a subjective matter that much of any reasonable discussion goes out of the window, just think of Vuckic. BTW GS, the team went downhill in Ally's first season when the whole Whyte fiasco became apparent. You may perhaps blame him for the exit in Europe, but I tend to blame players rather than coaches first and foremost, in this case inept displays from e.g. Whittaker. But again, that is quite subjective ... and has been done to death by now. And no repeat will change your or my opinion on that, or make it "more" valid. I could just as easily say "any manager signing Ian Black should have been hunted". Works just as well for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Okay, SINCE WHEN did a Rangers manager had a hand in the weekly wages of a player? You can chase managers for the choice of players, but wages? And as for choice of players, that is such a subjective matter that much of any reasonable discussion goes out of the window, just think of Vuckic. BTW GS, the team went downhill in Ally's first season when the whole Whyte fiasco became apparent. You may perhaps blame him for the exit in Europe, but I tend to blame players rather than coaches first and foremost, in this case inept displays from e.g. Whittaker. But again, that is quite subjective ... and has been done to death by now. And no repeat will change your or my opinion on that, or make it "more" valid. You blame the players for them returning to pre-season training a mere two weeks before a European tie ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,856 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Wrt to McCoist/past regimes I doubt that there was a coherent 'plan' in place on either the football side or the board side A sort of negative double whammy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I have to wonder if you follow the team. Did you see us under super? He said previously that he rarely watches us, which explains a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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