the gunslinger 3,366 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 The statement by Club1872 could have been written by the club itself. Instead of insisting that the club change its policy to one where you are innocent until convicted, which some have been advocating for many years and that in a democratic society is a right, we have Club1872 accepting this draconian position and somehow trying to defend David Martin's position of guilty until proven innocent IF the police have arrested you for something, (note not charged or convicted). As an ex-copper he clearly believes that they never make mistakes, and sometimes seems to forget that working for the club means working FOR the fans, not against them. Club 1872 should be pushing with everything it has got to change this ridiculous policy at the club which goes all the way back to Herr Hood and David Murray who were hated for their treatment of fans, instead of acting as a mouthpiece for the club defending its undefendable position. The club would have been absolutely spot on to say once the criminal investigations by the police have ended, if anyone is convicted of an offence, we will take action against them. Nobody wants those who have let the club down by fighting on the pitch to be given a free pass, but where there is a legal investigation ongoing, the Club is absolutely totally wrong to convict our fans prior to them having their case heard in court, and our fans reps should know it. Rather ignores the police not doing so. Bail conditions and all that. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 The way I read it they were saying no refunds. If you break the terms of your season ticket then your toast. If I get thrown out of longleat today for attacking the hippos am I due a refund on my 2nd day pass. Yes they could have taken your season ticket away last season without refund as that is when the incident happened. Most of the names were known before season tickets went on sale so Rangers could have stopped them before accepting money this season. You would need to be a piss poor lawyer not to win that in the courts. What happens if some have not fully paid up yet. You are not getting a season ticket but you have to pay one. I just don't see any way Rangers can lawfully withold money for a product they are refusing to deliver. As I say if it was mid-season there may be a case but not 2 weeks before the season ticket actually becomes a product. I would certainly have them in court. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Depends when your charged I expect. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) Depends when your charged I expect. They have taken the step now before the season ticket is even active. Administration costs at the most. There is no way Rangers can be seen to be punishing you with a fine as that is what it would potentially be. If you broke season ticket rules then it was last season's. I am not a legal expert but I do know I would fight that all the way. Edited July 29, 2016 by pete 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooponthewing 1,139 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I read the statement with interest. I am aware that there is something in the TCs re refunds however if these guys have not been convicted yet, how are we certain that it's not a case of mistaken identity, or plod, not for the first time, do not have enough evidence perhaps? In essence it seems these guys are being found guilty until proven innocent, that is unacceptable and not the conduct befitting of a national institution imo. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,271 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 It's a pragmatic, balanced response but I think it could have applied a bit more pressure to the club. Again though, if we want Hibs and their fans punished, we have to be seen to be acting ourselves. We can't have it both ways. That is IMHO a press release statement, since we (hopefully) don't want to wash our dirty clothes in public.. We can't possibly say how the discussion between Club1872 and Rangers actually went and whether it was that polite. Just saying. For the sake of our image et al, it would probably be responsible if club and these people keep any further stuff private and don't give the baying mob any more ammunition. A statement from club and Club1872 after all has been settled would suffice. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,173 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Private debate can be better but sometimes applying pressure to the club can be achieved better publicly - especially when you're a new group attempting to display independence from the board. The statement states the facts which is fine but it lacks empathy and certainly doesn't seem to represent the fact many fans are angry at the club's stance - past or present. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I read the statement with interest. I am aware that there is something in the TCs re refunds however if these guys have not been convicted yet, how are we certain that it's not a case of mistaken identity, or plod, not for the first time, do not have enough evidence perhaps?In essence it seems these guys are being found guilty until proven innocent, that is unacceptable and not the conduct befitting of a national institution imo. I think suspending people who are accused of a crime is a normal route to take. The question will come when they are found innocent. Will they be entitled to a refund for the games missed. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,271 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I think suspending people who are accused of a crime is a normal route to take. The question will come when they are found innocent. Will they be entitled to a refund for the games missed. As has been said, the club has probably no legal ground whatsoever to keep the paid ST money for the coming season. And I would assume any lawyer will have fun with any rules given in the letters or even in the ST guidelines: They could probably have rightfully keep any money from last season, but not for a product not delivered thus far. In essence, it is not dissimilar to you buying a TV set, pay in advance and then commit a crime. And the TV sellers then keep TV and money saying you are a criminal. (Not that I expect that there is any such line in any contract.) 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,348 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 If someone runs onto the park on Saturday, surely the club can decide to ban them irrespective of whether the police decide to take action or not? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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