Celtic face yet another UEFA rap as fans fly Palestine flags

[alexscottislegend 2,289]

Methinks I was actually stating quite early on that the Romans actually had a province called Judea before 136 CE, which might have given you a clue about who was there at the time.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_(Roman_province)

 

It is probably the most stereotypical "hen and egg" story out there.

 

Think the point to be inferred is that maybe it was a huge mistake to create the state of Israel in the first place. The British were instrumental in setting up the Balfour Declaration.

[JFK-1 1,693]

Think the point to be inferred is that maybe it was a huge mistake to create the state of Israel in the first place. The British were instrumental in setting up the Balfour Declaration.

 

But that has no use in the present does it? In the present we have to contend with what actually is not what might have been and that present contains a Palestine ruled by an entity which unashamedly proclaims an ambition to genocide the Jews and no intention whatsoever of negotiating any two state solution which makes any mention of a two state solution meaningless.

 

The Palestinian Authority makes no attempt to educate its people towards peace and coexistence with Israel. On the contrary, from every possible platform it repeatedly rejects Israel's right to exist, presents the conflict as a religious battle for Islam, depicts the establishment of Israel as an act of imperialism, and perpetuates a picture of the Middle East, both verbally and visually, in which Israel does not exist at all. Israel's destruction is said to be both inevitable and a Palestinian obligation.

 

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=433

 

Yet some think the onus is on Israel to accomodate THAT? Commit national suicide to accommodate a nation for people who have never been a nation? Unbelievable absurdity.

 

The following video which is from a hamas kids TV show illustrates exactly what they're teaching to the next generation and are we to think there would be no screams of horror if Israeli TV were teaching such things to Israeli kids? And notice there is no mention of Isrealis. Just Jews and this is waht they are teaching to kids RIGHT NOW.

 

Yet it's Israel who is the problem? Again, unbelievable absurdity and I simply can't fathom the processes of anyone who would take the side of this mentality.

 

[video=youtube;0ORAM-usqhQ]

[Bluedell 5,599]

That is truly worrying, not just in Scot but rUK too. It is linked to the economic crisis and is the response of those on the Right who seek simplistic views for the capitalist crisis.

 

Agreed that it's worrying but it's not just those on the right, and it's not just something that you can pin your anti-capitalist badge on.

 

But remember anti-semitism is not analogous to anti-Zionism.

 

I've already commented on that.

[alexscottislegend 2,289]

But that has no use in the present does it? In the present we have to contend with what actually is not what might have been and that present contains a Palestine ruled by an entity which unashamedly proclaims an ambition to genocide the Jews and no intention whatsoever of negotiating any two state solution which makes any mention of a two state solution meaningless.

 

 

 

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=433

 

Yet some think the onus is on Israel to accomodate THAT? Commit national suicide to accommodate a nation for people who have never been a nation? Unbelievable absurdity.

 

The following video which is from a hamas kids TV show illustrates exactly what they're teaching to the next generation and are we to think there would be no screams of horror if Israeli TV were teaching such things to Israeli kids? And notice there is no mention of Isrealis. Just Jews and this is waht they are teaching to kids RIGHT NOW.

 

Yet it's Israel who is the problem? Again, unbelievable absurdity and I simply can't fathom the processes of anyone who would take the side of this mentality.

 

 

 

The bottom line though is this:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=israel+palestine+maps&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=947&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivk_T1l9zOAhWLDMAKHVQHAgwQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=uNSAG0k-Dg1-_M%3A

 

We can play tit for tat about atrocities on both sides till the cows come home but the fact is Palestinians have a siege mentality not surprising when you look at that map. Somewhere along the line a political solution has to be found. Dont think many on the Left would advocate the COMPLETE destruction of Israel.

Edited August 25, 2016 by alexscottislegend
gopy

[JFK-1 1,693]

Dont think many on the Left would advocate the COMPLETE destruction of Israel.

 

It's irrelevant what "many on the left" would advocate. What is relevant is what hamas would advocate and that's nothing but the COMPLETE destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews to boot.

 

THAT'S the bottom line and if you had any idea what you were tallking about on this issue you would know that Israel was being attacked by them BEFORE any land you claim to be the bottom line was at issue. What was the bottom line at THAT time?

 

What would 'many on the left' advocate if Israel had an openly stated intention to utterly destroy Palestine and genocide every last inhabitant?

 

You think that would go down well with 'many on the left'? I would guess not yet when it's coming in the other direction that's OK and no big deal. Absolutely unbelievable.

 

That's exactly the mentality Israel is facing and 'many on the left' want them to accommodate that?. That's some bizazro world thinking right there. As for any siege mentality they are creating it for crying out loud. They declare war on Israel then you come along and say poor Palestinians, they declared war and are now suffering for it?

 

To the extent that Egypt too not just Israel is trying to keep them contained. You grasp Egypt has built a wall on their border with them? Do "many on the left' have the same issues with Egypt?

 

I don't think you're operating in the real world on this issue. I think you're inhabiting a fantasy world 'many on the left' have created with no thought at all of the realities.

 

And incidentally i'm on the left on almost everything but this.

Edited August 25, 2016 by JFK-1

[alexscottislegend 2,289]

It's irrelevant what "many on the left" would advocate. What is relevant is what hamas would advocate and that's nothing but the COMPLETE destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews to boot.

 

THAT'S the bottom line and if you had any idea what you were tallking about on this issue you would know that Israel was being attacked by them BEFORE any land you claim to be the bottom line was at issue. What was the bottom line at THAT time?

 

What would 'many on the left' advocate if Israel had an openly stated intention to utterly destroy Palestine and genocide every last inhabitant?

 

You think that would go down well with 'many on the left'? I would guess not yet when it's coming in the other direction that's OK and no big deal. Absolutely unbelievable.

 

That's exactly the mentality Israel is facing and 'many on the left' want them to accommodate that?. That's some bizazro world thinking right there. As for any siege mentality they are creating it for crying out loud. They declare war on Israel then you come along and say poor Palestinians, they declared war and are now suffering for it?

 

To the extent that Egypt too not just Israel is trying to keep them contained. You grasp Egypt has built a wall on their border with them? Do "many on the left' have the same issues with Egypt?

 

I don't think you're operating in the real world on this issue. I think you're inhabiting a fantasy world 'many on the left' have created with no thought at all of the realities.

 

And incidentally i'm on the left on almost everything but this.

 

[b Some of the Zionists would wish exactly that.

 

If, as you say, you are on the left on most issues then you would surely appreciate that the concept of imperialism and post-imperialism is the cause of most of the world's woes today. Yet you want to pin the blame on the Palestinians (who are not just Hamas) whose representatives have fragmented and split on tactics many times, including Hamas itself. That doesn't alter the fact that an artificially created state caused, it is reckoned, 700,00 to flee and retreat into a horde of refugee camps which are still there today.

As for Egypt, I fully supported the Arab Spring but that's for another thread.

Edited August 26, 2016 by alexscottislegend

[der Berliner 3,716]

On a related sidenote ... from The Man the Beasts can't tame:

 

IF JEW KNEW THEIR HISTORY: PART 4 PADRAIG ‘PODGE’ MULLAN

 

The other parts can be found here.

Edited August 26, 2016 by der Berliner

[JFK-1 1,693]

[b Some of the Zionists would wish exactly that.

 

If, as you say, you are on the left on most issues then you would surely appreciate that the concept of imperialism and post-imperialism is the cause of most of the world's woes today. Yet you want to pin the blame on the Palestinians (who are not just Hamas) whose representatives have fragmented and split on tactics many times, including Hamas itself. That doesn't alter the fact that an artificially created state caused, it is reckoned, 700,00 to flee and retreat into a horde of refugee camps which are still there today.

As for Egypt, I fully supported the Arab Spring but that's for another thread.

 

And again making claims that it's artificially created is irrelevant to the fact that THIS is the bottom line to borrow a phrase you used yourself.

 

What is relevant is what hamas would advocate and that's nothing but the COMPLETE destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews to boot.

 

Even if it were artificially created so what? The entire middle east and Africa too were created in the same way yet by sheer chance the only place they go batshit insane about it for 70 years is over the park sized patch of land occupied by the Jews??? And you think that's remotely rational while taking the side the terrorists who perpetuate it and who freely elected a group who want to genocide not just Israelis but Jews worldwide?

 

What would you think of me if I wanted to genocide the Palestinians or supported a group who had a charter openly stating it? Turn that around replace Palestinians with Jews and get an idea what i'm beginning to be forced to think of you in this situation.

 

See what you do is veer all over the place making disjointed nonsensical comments about it many of which are irrelevant and many entirely erroneous while ignoring all facts presented to you as if they had never been presented at all and it appears to be the case that all you know about it is the pointless babble which "many on the left" parrot which has no basis in reality.

 

"many on the left" includes those idiots at parkhead last week large numbers oif who as was pointed out by soime couldn't even place the middle east far less Israel on a map.

 

If, as you say, you are on the left on most issues then you would surely appreciate that the concept of imperialism and post-imperialism is the cause of most of the world's woes today. Yet you want to pin the blame on the Palestinians

 

Turn that around too. Yet YOU want to pin the blame on the Israelis and excuse the Nazis who want to genocide them not for being Israelis but for being Jews.

 

You're saying absolutely nothing which is of any worth about this while displaying an ignorance about it that is so startling you really shouldn't be commenting on it at all and a perfect example of that is this.

 

it is reckoned, 700,00 to flee and retreat into a horde of refugee camps which are still there today

 

You're obviously entirely unaware of why that is or you wouldn't have mentioned it at all and yet still try to talk about this as if you know anything at all about it. A very brief example of how ignorant that refugee claim is. And once you know the cause of it I fully hope you and "many on the left" go after the culprits.

 

THIS is how they originally became refugees.

 

"The radio stations of the Arab regimes kept repeating to us: 'Get away from the battle lines. It's a matter of ten days or two weeks at the most, and we'll bring you back to Ein-Kerem [near Jerusalem].' And we said to ourselves, 'That's a very long time. What is this? Two weeks? That's a lot!' That's what we thought [then]. And now 50 years have gone by." [PA TV (Fatah), July 7, 2009]

 

With these words an Arab resident of a refugee camp recounts the reason why his family left Israel in 1948, in an interview broadcast on PA TV this month.

 

In recent years, Palestinian leaders, writers and refugees have spoken out in the Palestinian media, blaming the Arab leadership for the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem. According to these accounts, and contrary to the Palestinian myth that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were deported by Israel in 1948, the vast majority of the Arab exodus from Israel was voluntary, and the result of orders by the Arab leadership.

 

Furthermore, the fact that this information has been openly discussed by public figures and refugees in the Palestinian Authority media itself suggests that awareness of this responsibility may be widespread - even though Palestinian leaders continue to blame Israel for "the expulsion" for propaganda purposes.

 

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=1102

 

And I hate to keep talking about ignorance but I can see no other way. You're actually being ignorant enough on this to talk about a mere 700,000 people who Arabs have not resettled in seventy years with lands larger than all of Europe not including Russia to do so in while Europe resettled tens of millions of refugees inside a few years after WW2 and still apparently you don't get what's going on here though to be true you obviously didn't even know that either.

 

They have never been resettled because Arabs want to keep them there as an excuse to continue hating Jews. No more no less.

 

Stop filling your head with what "many on the left" say and research it yourself and believe me that will involve a lot more than a youtube clip or a wiki article. I have been reading about it for over 20 years.

[alexscottislegend 2,289]

n recent years, Palestinian leaders, writers and refugees have spoken out in the Palestinian media, blaming the Arab leadership for the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem. According to these accounts, and contrary to the Palestinian myth that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were deported by Israel in 1948, the vast majority of the Arab exodus from Israel was voluntary, and the result of orders by the Arab leadership.

 

Well that is the first time I have heard that view promulgated it is true. I will research it but I object to your spin on my view to make it sound, 'Israeli bad, Palestinian good'; in truth I reject both nationalist perspectives in favour of what is best for the working class of both communities. That includes supporting those Israeli workers who are consistently struggling for union rights. My wife studied Hebrew theology and we met people from the synagogue who were implacably opposed to the prevailing orthodoxy in their country. Matters are further complicated by the fact that according to them the really religious Jews were persecuted over there. Not forgetting the thousands of Palestinian Jews who were settled long before 1948 and who were ostensibly bothering nobody.

[der Berliner 3,716]

Have I missed any punishments from UEFA or have they been in hibernation since the game?