Fighting A War On Two Fronts

[delbear 0]

Sorry Del but Jim saying he is voting to end the Union is NOT anti-British IMO.

 

There are many who will vote independence because many Scottish people are sick of being ruled by the English - that in itself is definitely NOT anti-British but a desire for the Scottish people to rule themselves. I fail to see what is wrong with people wanting to take their destiny in their own hands.

 

If you are not anti-British Del and want to sing RB and GSTQ that is your prerogative - but why not then start singing Flower of Scotland - or are you being anti-Scottish ?

 

I do however agree with you about the arseholes singing the "chosen" words and that it is an attitudinal thing - they want to stic 2 fingers up to the authorities - well I hope they will be proud of themselves when our club loses multiple millions of pounds in lost revenues from European football.

 

 

Craig im not saying his view on the vote is anti- british but in genral FJ is anti british "is flower of scotland not anti-english?" or where do we stop ! after all follow follow/ hullo / blue sea of ibrox is anti-celtic!

 

We live in a pc mad world! and now we have to adjust to it !

 

Del.

 

Scottish & British and proud!

[craig 5,199]

Craig im not saying his view on the vote is anti- british but in genral FJ is anti british "is flower of scotland not anti-english?" or where do we stop ! after all follow follow/ hullo / blue sea of ibrox is anti-celtic!

 

We live in a pc mad world! and now we have to adjust to it !

 

Del.

 

Scottish & British and proud!

 

Del, I can't respond for Jim but there is a difference between being anti-British and pro-Scottish. Jim's comments could be either.

 

You are spot on about the PC mad world - the things is though, we as a support and a club (because the club has to take action too) have to adjust in that changing environment - because make no mistake about it, if we don't collectively move on then our club is DEAD - it really IS that simple.

[craig 5,199]

Can you guys not just kiss and make up ?

 

Go on, you will both be the happier for it (just ask Jon about and my fantasies about him since Juffries posts and the wife being away....)

[delbear 0]

Del, I can't respond for Jim but there is a difference between being anti-British and pro-Scottish. Jim's comments could be either.

 

You are spot on about the PC mad world - the things is though, we as a support and a club (because the club has to take action too) have to adjust in that changing environment - because make no mistake about it, if we don't collectively move on then our club is DEAD - it really IS that simple.

 

 

 

Very true craig i just dont see why droping the main song"hullo hullo"is so hard must be other songs people can sing.. that wont get us in more shit

[Falkirk Jim 0]

I made my point, and it was pro-Scottish, but i was only saying what i feel ... i'd rather politics DID stay out of our club, there is no need for them to mix!!

[Gribz 743]

Interesting debate. However what chance have we got of iradicating the problems when our own support is divided on issued - and thats not including the effteepee brigade.

 

So we are split into 3 or 4 groups.

 

So IMO its up to the club to set the rules out and Murray must speak out.

 

I dont think UEFA are actually going to come down to hard with other songs. I think the club informed them last year after villareal what is sectarian and whats not.

 

The media are not an issue. They are always going to print junk about us whatever happens.

 

I wouldnt bring Donald Finlay back either - he is over in my neck of the woods anyway.

 

Also, football and politics are 2 seperate issues - thats one simple thing that needs educated into the heads of some fans all over the country.

[Falkirk Jim 0]

Interesting debate. However what chance have we got of iradicating the problems when our own support is divided on issued - and thats not including the effteepee brigade.

 

Well, this one did get out of hand a bit, but i don't quite agree on what you have said above ... i think you will find that the vast majority of people will agree that we need to rid the club of the offensive chants in question.

 

I may have made my points about stuff like Rule Britannia and GSTQ and they have been misinterpreted, but i've always said that i have no issues with anyone wishing to fly a union flag, or sing GSTQ, it's just my personal preference that we move away from this kind of image, and that is all! In fact, i'd defend to the death the right of any Gers fan to fly a Union flag whilst no one in Scotland seems to object about the foreign flag across the city!!! As i have already said elsewhere, there are a lot of ignorant people in this country, you only have to look at our tabloid press who will defend the union on the front page, but slate the 'english loving' Gers fans on their back pages to see what we are up against, and that's before you look at away fans with the Lion Rampant (the royal standard of Scotland!!) booing GSTQ!!!

 

It is just my personal belief that certain aspects of this 'Britishness' (rightly or wrongly in this PC world!) attracts a certain kind of fan that we could do without, ye know, the 'red hand' salute type of person, the BNP trash peddling person, etc, etc!! The English international support has taken leaps and bounds forward in the last few years, and if we could do the same where people can be proud to be British, Scottish, or whatever at Ibrox, without the nasty side attached, then it would be ok with me ... but as someone already said earlier, you would get a doing for singing Flower of Scotland at Ibrox, and i've seen people getting abuse for wearing a Scotland top before, and this kind of behaviour disgusts me ... these are the type of fans dishing out abuse of that kind, that we could do with removing!

 

There ... i've had my say, and you can discuss it as you wish ... i felt this thread had left me looking bad (again!!) and i felt i had to correct things!

[CammyF 6,797]

The main reason for my thinking regarding drawing a line in the sand, is that if we don't do it, the media will, once we have eradicated effteepee etc, go after things like the union flag and GSTQ/RB. Once the media and the MOPES get a hold of it, UEFA will come trotting behind them and demm these as 'offensive'.

 

Thats why we have to draw a line - and IMO the line has to be drawn after effteepee and 'fe****'. However, that is not to say that we as a support have a debate after this about things like GSTQ/RB etc.

 

As for Flower Of Scotland, I absolutely hate that dirge of a song - that is not a political statement, just one of a music fan with taste .... In saying that, my Follow Follow record from the early 60's has FOS and Scotland the Brave along side Derrys Walls, The Sash, Follow Follow etc.

 

Would I give abuse to anyone at Ibrox singing FOS or wearing a Scotland top? Deffo not, why would I? In the same light, I wouldn't abuse any fan at Ibrox wearing an England, Wales, NI, Holland, Spain, Croatia, Brazil, Argentine, etc, etc top either.

 

What we really must be careful of here is trying to run before we can walk. We have to do this in stages and as Frankie says by education and not 'over the top condemnation'.

 

As for the BNP sellers, they are doing nothing illeagal and have the right to sell their papers anywhere in they want. Rangers have pushed them as far away from the stadium as they are permitted to do under council legislation. Like them or loathe them, under the freedom of speach they are entitled to their opinion and to express this in public.

 

Cammy F

[ian1964 10,416]

I can't really be bothered with all this pish about what flag should/shouldn't be flown at a football game, i don't mind what flag anybody flies, including C****c,what angers me is how much fuss is made over Rangers fans flying a Union Flag, i'm Scottish but also British, don't know about these days but in your Royal British Legion Social clubs GSTQ was played at the end of the night and people stood up and respected this, i can just about remember this as i was only a youngster.

[ascender 352]

Good post Cammy.

 

I've said it before, that one thing which really annoys me is how fans of other clubs class a lot of our songs as being bigoted/sectarian when clearly they are nothing of the sort. Why our club never stands up for us and points this out, I'll never know.

 

The flip side of the coin is that these songs probably aren't helping our image much. No-one likes us, we don't care. Maybe times have changed and we should care a bit as we're often our own worst enemy. That's a whole other argument though.

 

Highlighting other clubs shortcomings is a good idea in theory, which would no doubt get a lot of support, but I can't help but think it will just make us look like we're trying to deflect from our own problems. I genuinely don't believe there's a large media bias against any club in Scotland as most fans can point towards instances where the press (and SFA) have been for/against their club, but I have found it very strange that there's been very little coverage of some of the behaviour of the GFITW recently. Very annoying indeed and certainly it makes you wonder why.

 

As for the sensationalist headlines, we all know how lazy our press are up here. They love this sort of thing, especially when our own fans, make it so easy for them. Its really, really depressing to see how fans continue to drag this club down and give the tabloid press exactly what they want. How stupid are these guys?