Uilleam 5,507 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I'm sure I remember D&P stating the money never touched Rangers bank account. It was, If memory serves, in a Collier Bristow escrow/client's a/c. Collier Bristow's guy, Withey, averred, on that basis, that Whyte had the money to buy the Club. He didn't - he was selling future season tickets, or the rights to the proceeds of these , which as Mr Forlanssister has pointed out, above, came gey close to Financial Assistance, an offence. When Whyte got ownership of the Club, the money, as far as I know (may guess) went directly from the CB escrow to Lloyds. Ticketus, the supplier of the cash, was left high and dry when Whyte, quite deliberately crashed the Company. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,356 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I'm sure I remember D&P stating the money never touched Rangers bank account. That was probably true but it doesn't have to, in the similar way as mortgage cash wouldn't hit your bank account. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I find it best to listen to bluedell when hes talking finance 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,307 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) That was probably true but it doesn't have to, in the similar way as mortgage cash wouldn't hit your bank account. But this wasn't a mortgage though was it ? If I fraudulently obtain funds can I buy your house? I bet you'd hope your solicitor would ensure everything was in order beforehand. This was RFC Ltd(now oldco) supposedly clearing its bank debt by a payment from one of Whyte's companies.Didn't the bank ask any questions when the money came from elsewhere? Did they ask where the money came from ? The Scottish banking fraternity knew all about Whyte from his previous business history. That I know for a fact. Add to that LBG gave Whyte no credit facilities when he got Rangers. If Whyte gets found guilty I'd be amazed if LBG don't come under some sort of investigation. Perhaps SDM too. They certainly seemed keen to lend him money again for new ventures after he sold Rangers on top of the £750m or so MIH already owed. Coincidence ? Don't think so Edited March 11, 2017 by RANGERRAB 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 But this wasn't a mortgage though was it ? If I fraudulently obtain funds can I buy your house? I bet you'd hope your solicitor would ensure everything was in order beforehand. This was RFC Ltd(now oldco) supposedly clearing its bank debt by a payment from one of Whyte's companies.Didn't the bank ask any questions when the money came from elsewhere? Did they ask where the money came from ? The Scottish banking fraternity knew all about Whyte from his previous business history. That I know for a fact. Add to that LBG gave Whyte no credit facilities when he got Rangers. If Whyte gets found guilty I'd be amazed if LBG don't come under some sort of investigation. Perhaps SDM too. They certainly seemed keen to lend him money again for new ventures after he sold Rangers on top of the £750m or so MIH already owed. Coincidence ? Don't think so Things like that never happen except in our dreams. What really happens is the stuff of nightmares. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,307 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Things like that never happen except in our dreams. What really happens is the stuff of nightmares. Depends to what extent Ticketus are prepared to go to. LBG should never have accepted that payment 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,356 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 But this wasn't a mortgage though was it ? If I fraudulently obtain funds can I buy your house? I bet you'd hope your solicitor would ensure everything was in order beforehand.Does the selling of season ticket income in advance represent fraud? I don't believe it does. However where it does get murky is whether the £18m formed part of the purchase price or was it just a subsequent transaction. Companies can't fund their own purchase. My feeling is that it does but given the lack of anyone else saying so then I tend to think I'm wrong. This was RFC Ltd(now oldco) supposedly clearing its bank debt by a payment from one of Whyte's companies.Didn't the bank ask any questions when the money came from elsewhere? Did they ask where the money came from ?. I'm fairly sure that they would have asked where the cash came from and they would have been shown the documentation that the club were selling season ticket income in advance. That would satisfy their due diligence on the subject. The Scottish banking fraternity knew all about Whyte from his previous business history. That I know for a fact. Add to that LBG gave Whyte no credit facilities when he got Rangers. It didn't matter who bought the club. LBG wanted away from it, particularly given the BTC. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Depends to what extent Ticketus are prepared to go to. LBG should never have accepted that payment I'm not disputing that or any other detail. My answer above. to which you replied, still stands though as it is more of an statement re the existential state of the reality we find ourselves living through - after sleep walking into it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,061 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Does the selling of season ticket income in advance represent fraud? I don't believe it does. However where it does get murky is whether the £18m formed part of the purchase price or was it just a subsequent transaction. Companies can't fund their own purchase. My feeling is that it does but given the lack of anyone else saying so then I tend to think I'm wrong. It would appear the Crown view it as "Financial Assistance" it was also the basis for the initial complaint made to the authorities by Alastair Johnston. (002) you CRAIG THOMAS WHYTE, being an officer of a company, namely a director of The Rangers Football Club plc, a company incorporated under the Companies Acts, with company number SC004276 and having its registered office at Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow (hereinafter referred to as the “Club”), and knowing that a person, namely Wavetower Limited, a company incorporated under the Companies Acts, with company number 07380537 and having its registered office at 4 Bedford Row, London (hereinafter referred to as “Wavetower”) had acquired 92,842,388 ordinary shares in the Club from Murray and a liability had been incurred by Wavetower for the purpose of the said acquisition, namely that Wavetower had undertaken, in terms of the Assignation Agreement between Wavetower and the Bank of Scotland plc dated 5 May 2011 and the Share Purchase Agreement between Murray and Wavetower dated 6 May 2011, to pay at least £18,000,000 to the Bank of Scotland plc for an assignation of the debt owed to the Bank of Scotland plc by the Club, did on 9 May 2011 at Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow; Dundas and Wilson LLP, Saltire Court, 20 Castle Terrace, Edinburgh; Lloyds Banking Group, New Uberior House, 11 Earl Grey Street, Edinburgh; Dickson Minto WS, 16 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh; the Bank of Scotland plc, The Mound, Edinburgh; Collyer Bristow LLP, 4 Bedford Row, London, authorise or permit the Club unlawfully to give financial assistance directly or indirectly for the purpose of reducing or discharging the said liability of Wavetower to the Bank of Scotland plc, and at the time said financial assistance was given the Club in which the shares had been acquired was a public company, in that upon appointment as director you did cause the Club to enter into a loan agreement with Wavetower and, in implementation of the said loan agreement, to lend £18,000,000 to Wavetower, which in turn allowed Wavetower to meet its liability incurred to the Bank of Scotland plc for the purpose of the said acquisition: CONTRARY to Sections 678(3) and 680(1) and (2) of the Companies Act 2006. I'm fairly sure that they would have asked where the cash came from and they would have been shown the documentation that the club were selling season ticket income in advance. That would satisfy their due diligence on the subject. I imagine sight of the funds in Collyer Bristow escrow account was enough for the bank to keep it's own arse clean, and Donald Muir simply wouldn't have given a flying f*&k where his £1m bonus came from. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,307 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 It would appear the Crown view it as "Financial Assistance" it was also the basis for the initial complaint made to the authorities by Alastair Johnston. I imagine sight of the funds in Collyer Bristow escrow account was enough for the bank to keep it's own arse clean, and Donald Muir simply wouldn't have given a flying f*&k where his £1m bonus came from. BDO certainly saw enough to convince them to go after CB for £24m. Maybe LBG aren't as diligent. Maybe LBG should have been asking the same questions BDO saw fit to ask. And BDO won their case 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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