Ruth Gilfillan was booted down three ranks over Rangers 'banter' claim

[JohnMc 2,516]

None of the people mentioned have been deprived of the right to vote.

 

 

Okay, how about the 3 Million EU nationals living, working and paying taxes in the UK who aren't allowed to vote in UK General Elections? Do they fit your narrow dictionary definition okay?

 

I'd ask you to read again about the million or so people who dropped off the electoral register in 2015, most without realising they had. There might not be Jim Crow laws in place but there's a tacit acceptance that many of those people might not have voted as the government of the time wanted.

[Bill 13,717]

You can take every word at it's literal meaning and the rest of us can all acknowledge that the English language continually evolves and being deprived of someone to vote for (because you don't approve of any current political party) is a form of disenfranchisement.

 

Hip with that?

But he's right, none of the people mentioned have been denied the right to vote. Are you saying the English language is open to any interpretation, even one at odds with the words used?

[Bill 13,717]

Okay, how about the 3 Million EU nationals living, working and paying taxes in the UK who aren't allowed to vote in UK General Elections? Do they fit your narrow dictionary definition okay?

 

I'd ask you to read again about the million or so people who dropped off the electoral register in 2015, most without realising they had. There might not be Jim Crow laws in place but there's a tacit acceptance that many of those people might not have voted as the government of the time wanted.

There is no such things as an EU national. There are only citizens of other countries - France, Germany, Italy, etc - who already have the right to vote in their own countries for their own political options. Why would they have a right to vote in a UK election? If they pay taxes here it's because they use the services those taxes pay for, it's not to buy voting rights. I wouldn't expect to vote in a Malaysian election just because I'd made a decision to live and work there.

[Gonzo79 13,875]

My argument stems from what you mean by deprived. There are different ways to deprive someone of something.

 

You can forcefully take a plate of mince'n'tatties off someone to deprive them or you can also make it disgusting (adding an ingredient you know they don't like), so they won't eat it and thus depriving them of the meal they want.

 

This is a bit of a daft argument and has nothing to do with the thread.

[ranger_syntax 3,847]

There is no such things as an EU national. There are only citizens of other countries - France, Germany, Italy, etc - who already have the right to vote in their own countries for their own political options. Why would they have a right to vote in a UK election? If they pay taxes here it's because they use the services those taxes pay for, it's not to buy voting rights. I wouldn't expect to vote in a Malaysian election just because I'd made a decision to live and work there.

 

Quite.

 

Paying tax is not an essential criterion for the right to vote.

 

You have to wonder why JohnMc mentions it at all.

[JohnMc 2,516]

Quite.

 

Paying tax is not an essential criterion for the right to vote.

 

You have to wonder why JohnMc mentions it at all.

 

I mention it because these people are literally disenfranchised and you seem so hung up on the literal meaning of words that you'd dismiss 7 million other people who are excluded from voting. That's us at 10 million people who live in the UK who can't vote, but still, nothing to see here, move on. The fact 'EU nationals' (apologies, for using shorthand instead of typing out the names of every country in the EU) can vote in local elections in the UK only further underlines their literal disenfranchisement in general elections.

[the gunslinger 3,366]

They can of course take up citezenship and vote.

 

 

[pete 2,499]

They can of course take up citezenship and vote.

 

I do not have a vote in Germany where I live but I can vote in Holland because I have taken Dutch citizenship.

I think I can also vote in Britain as I am considered a British national with Dutch citizenship (living in Germany:D)

I think you can vote at by-elections as a foreigner. I only took Dutch Citizenship on a few years ago as it was becoming more of a pain in the backside getting a British passport. It was easier to go down to the local town hall to get one.

[JohnMc 2,516]

They can of course take up citezenship and vote.

 

Why, Irish citizens don't have too? Neither do Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, Bangladeshis or Pakistanis. Yet a Dane who has lived here for 20 years, who has a full time job and a wife and 3 kids all born here can't.

 

Anyway, we're rapidly going off topic. My original point stands, over 10 million people in the UK aren't allowed to vote in General Elections, and millions more are completely unengaged by current politics. That's not right in any democracy.

[Bill 13,717]

Why, Irish citizens don't have too? Neither do Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, Bangladeshis or Pakistanis. Yet a Dane who has lived here for 20 years, who has a full time job and a wife and 3 kids all born here can't.

 

Anyway, we're rapidly going off topic. My original point stands, over 10 million people in the UK aren't allowed to vote in General Elections, and millions more are completely unengaged by current politics. That's not right in any democracy.

 

 

To make a political point you're deliberately conflating a legal right to vote, in accordance with the laws of this country, with an inferred denial of those voting rights for nefarious reasons. The simple fact is that there are people who are allowed to live in this country but do not legally qualify for voting rights, which is also the case in every other country. But I'll say it again, none of the people you originally mentioned have been denied the right to vote.

 

It would actually be a denial of democracy if people with no legal right to vote were then allowed to vote and influence the governance of the UK, possibly at odds with the broad wishes of its citizens. How about 12 year olds, are they being denied the right to vote? Or members of the police or military, should they be allowed to vote? Or illegal immigrants, or convicted terrorists, or the certified insane?