Rangers staff risk stoking sectarianism hints Glasgow council boss Susan Aitken

[buster. 4,808]

5 hours ago, barca72 said:

Let me tell you right off the top that the supporters of Rangers have kept this club going for 146 years so there is nothing that your whining voices will say that will remotely change the core of that support.
If you want to come and watch the team on a matchday you are more than welcome but for the rest of it leave it alone.
Out of interest you ask why ,you say, you can't be Rangers' supporter and be an SNP supporter. You are not that important in the overall scheme of things.
Just out of interest you might just cast your mind back to the introduction of this Act ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_Behaviour_at_Football_and_Threatening_Communications_(Scotland)_Act_2012 ..
You'll notice it was introduced by Kenny MacAskill, deputy FM. It was passed by 64(all SNP votes) to 57(opposition parties).
They brought this Act into being to rid Scottish football and society of sectarianism. It was pushed on by Community minister Roseanna Cunningham, who declared that the scourge of sectarianism would no longer be tolerated after the scenes seen in this game(a Party decision) ...

 

They thought that they could catch all the "bad" Rangers' supporters with this horrendous legislation, but it backfired on them because they caught more tims that they had expected. Maybe that's why Sheriffs and others were describing the Act as "mince".
Do you get the picture of why the Rangers' support have no trust in the entire SNP party when every single one of them voted for this Act? By the way, that was a Party vote rather than an individual vote. You getting the picture?
Then there are the rest of you who think that the Orange Order should just shrivel up and die and no longer be associated with the Rangers' support. Read this ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/10/orange-order-pro-union-parade-edinburgh-better-together ..
For me the last two paragraphs sums up what that section of the support who wish that the support would all just play nice, really are...
..."Given that a lot of Catholics formed the traditional Labour vote after the first world war, and that Labour vote is now swinging towards independence, there could be a blowback that could work to the advantage of the yes campaign.
"The order is tolerated at best by mainstream pro-union backers, he adds. "It is not an exaggeration to say that respectable, bourgeois Scotland – much of which is behind Better Together – hate the Orange Order. These are not the people they want to have onside in the no campaign."
 

If the shoe fits wear it.
For myself, I shall just 'follow' on.

A post that helps explain why the Orange Order is short of mates.

[Gaffer 1,665]

7 hours ago, barca72 said:

Let me tell you right off the top that the supporters of Rangers have kept this club going for 146 years so there is nothing that your whining voices will say that will remotely change the core of that support.
If you want to come and watch the team on a matchday you are more than welcome but for the rest of it leave it alone.
Out of interest you ask why ,you say, you can't be Rangers' supporter and be an SNP supporter. You are not that important in the overall scheme of things.
Just out of interest you might just cast your mind back to the introduction of this Act ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_Behaviour_at_Football_and_Threatening_Communications_(Scotland)_Act_2012 ..
You'll notice it was introduced by Kenny MacAskill, deputy FM. It was passed by 64(all SNP votes) to 57(opposition parties).
They brought this Act into being to rid Scottish football and society of sectarianism. It was pushed on by Community minister Roseanna Cunningham, who declared that the scourge of sectarianism would no longer be tolerated after the scenes seen in this game(a Party decision) ...

 

They thought that they could catch all the "bad" Rangers' supporters with this horrendous legislation, but it backfired on them because they caught more tims that they had expected. Maybe that's why Sheriffs and others were describing the Act as "mince".
Do you get the picture of why the Rangers' support have no trust in the entire SNP party when every single one of them voted for this Act? By the way, that was a Party vote rather than an individual vote. You getting the picture?
Then there are the rest of you who think that the Orange Order should just shrivel up and die and no longer be associated with the Rangers' support. Read this ...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/10/orange-order-pro-union-parade-edinburgh-better-together ..
For me the last two paragraphs sums up what that section of the support who wish that the support would all just play nice, really are...
..."Given that a lot of Catholics formed the traditional Labour vote after the first world war, and that Labour vote is now swinging towards independence, there could be a blowback that could work to the advantage of the yes campaign.
"The order is tolerated at best by mainstream pro-union backers, he adds. "It is not an exaggeration to say that respectable, bourgeois Scotland – much of which is behind Better Together – hate the Orange Order. These are not the people they want to have onside in the no campaign."
 

If the shoe fits wear it.
For myself, I shall just 'follow' on.

In my opinion this is one of the most dillusional posts I've read on here in some time.  Congratulations!

 

This is mostly made up in your mind.  Thankfully the minority you belong to is just that, and will disappear with a little more time.  Most of us have no problem with our fans having support for specific issues, political parties, the orange order, or other groups.  That's because most us recognise that the Rangers support is so large that it covers such a diverse section of the population.  That's a good thing, contrary to your belief.

 

For the vast majority of Rangers fans, they too follow but only focus on their team and beating their rivals.  There are NO conditions attached to supporting Rangers.  I accept that this is impossible for you to accept, but that's the facts.

 

Its the majority of us that will keep this club going in the future.  You can thank us later.

[Scott7 5,108]

This topic has been overtaken by the question now before this house, namely:

 

”Is it possible simultaneosly to support Rangers and Independence for Scotland/SNP?”

 

Everyone who has posted is a Rangers supporter, not much doubt about that. At least three are committed to independence, with maybe a couple of fellow travellers. So there’s the answer in the affirmative. 

 

I disagree with the minority. I would like to persuade them that they are mistaken but I know that’s not going to happen because it’s more than just the interpretation of facts. Emotions are involved as well. And I’m not in favour of silencing minorities.

 

So, the side issue having been resolved let’s get wired intae they cooncil guys.

[Bluedell 5,329]

10 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

100/0 on my RSC bus.  ?

And would have been on my old bus as well.

 

It seems some doubt your figures, but I'd suspect that many buses are like that.

 

Before people get their knickers in a twist, the make-up of RSC buses may not be representative of the wider support, but they are representative politically of the people I go to the games with and those I sit beside.

[pete 2,494]

On a bus though people follow the leader. If i was on a Rangers bus I would sing along with the sash GSTQ the dambusters and all but whether I think like that away from a tribal gathering is a different matter.

[JohnMc 2,463]

11 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

There have always been divisions and majority and minority opinions.  I used to be in the minority as a left wing socialist and fought my corner like a lion.  It makes no difference to the fact we are all Rangers supporters, nor should it.

I found this post interesting, mainly because you described yourself as being in the minority. Yet even a cursory glance at voting in West Central Scotland from the late 60s onwards clearly showed that the majority were at least left leaning, and voting, if not out right socialists. Despite this you clearly felt you were in a minority when mixing with Rangers supporters. Even though we pulled our support from inner-city, post industrial Glasgow, mining villages across Lothian, Ayrshire and Lanarkshire, the steel and mill towns of Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire and the docks and yards of Clydeside. 

 

So did none of the people who voted Labour throughout the 70s and 80s support Rangers? Of course they did, in their tens of thousands. I don't think you were in a minority. There have always been some people for whom supporting Rangers is an expression of their belief system. They see supporting Rangers as a box to tick along with being Orange, Unionist and right of centre politically, sometimes very right of centre. They feel all these things are interconnected, and they can be quite vocal about it. 

 

You can see it on this thread too. The thought that someone could passionately and loyally support Rangers whilst rejecting all the other aspects they feel are connected to it puzzles and angers them. You can see it in some of the posts on this thread. Comments like 'never hear SNP supporters near me at Ibrox' and 'only know a couple and they're fair weather supporters' all help fill this narrative. Only 'real' Rangers supporters need apply. 

 

I actually think it's that mindset that's in the minority now. I think @pete nailed it; 60% don't care. They only care about who is playing upfront this weekend and who we might sign in January. They care about football, and only football. 

 

Whether people like it or not the Scottish society I was born into has changed out of all recognition. The SNP are the most popular party currently. Scottish independence is a distinct probability now, one that grows daily as Labour and the Tories veer further to the extremes and the UK heads towards huge, unclear social and economic change. There is a real possibility that a united Ireland and an independent Scotland could happen in my lifetime. Neither of those events will make me support Rangers any less.

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,470]

7 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

And would have been on my old bus as well.

 

It seems some doubt your figures, but I'd suspect that many buses are like that.

 

Before people get their knickers in a twist, the make-up of RSC buses may not be representative of the wider support, but they are representative politically of the people I go to the games with and those I sit beside.

The numbers are not really the point though are they? If it was 99/1, we are all Rangers fans in the end and want our football team to win, regardless if you are a Unionist, Indy supporter etc. No fan should feel unwelcome or not valid because they don't conform to the political leanings of the majority (regardless of what side you are on)

[der Berliner 3,219]

46 pages ...

 

A friend of mine, the admin of our German board, was about 300 m from the Manchester blast, luckily unharmed, but still shellshocked on the day and thereafter.

 

For years we look from afar and wonder in disbelief at what trasnpires from Scotland, how the Yahoo-minded get an ever greater influence in politics and not just football. How people openly linked to the terrorist-minded walk about and do party-politics while demonising our support, warping the term sectarianism to an utterly new, West-of-Scotland definition.

 

When I ask, as I did above, why people do not adress higher instances / strata of politics about e.g. the IRA chantings and open support of politicians for IRA-supporting folk, there's an utter silence. Be it here or on FF. I would have assumed that dozens of people, not least veterans or folk who suffered on the hands of the IRA terrorists would write and complain to the Home Office, Ministry of Defence, and Ministry of Justice ... as the Scottish authorities are inept to deal with this.

 

I reckon I'll get a few "ah but they don't care" replies ... but I won't have that. People sling arguments back and forth on the boards in dozens of threads and show their utter contempt of what is going on. But these discussion yield exactly nothing, as no-one outside these boards care and/or read it.

 

If only 1/10 of those posting would take it into their hands and write - preferably openly - to the aforementioned institutions and ask them for their opinion on these events and that the Scottish government and law enforcers simply fail to act according to what is law in the UK, we might see some change in the future, as questions will surely be asked out there in the medial public.

Edited September 7, 2018 by der Berliner

[Bluedell 5,329]

8 minutes ago, pete said:

On a bus though people follow the leader. If i was on a Rangers bus I would sing along with the sash GSTQ the dambusters and all but whether I think like that away from a tribal gathering is a different matter.

But it's not just singing songs (which prove nothing politically). There tends to be a lot of political discussions as well.

 

Talking politics and current affairs has always been part of my football day-out experience.

 

 

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,470]

12 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

I found this post interesting, mainly because you described yourself as being in the minority. Yet even a cursory glance at voting in West Central Scotland from the late 60s onwards clearly showed that the majority were at least left leaning, and voting, if not out right socialists. Despite this you clearly felt you were in a minority when mixing with Rangers supporters. Even though we pulled our support from inner-city, post industrial Glasgow, mining villages across Lothian, Ayrshire and Lanarkshire, the steel and mill towns of Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire and the docks and yards of Clydeside. 

 

So did none of the people who voted Labour throughout the 70s and 80s support Rangers? Of course they did, in their tens of thousands. I don't think you were in a minority. There have always been some people for whom supporting Rangers is an expression of their belief system. They see supporting Rangers as a box to tick along with being Orange, Unionist and right of centre politically, sometimes very right of centre. They feel all these things are interconnected, and they can be quite vocal about it. 

 

You can see it on this thread too. The thought that someone could passionately and loyally support Rangers whilst rejecting all the other aspects they feel are connected to it puzzles and angers them. You can see it in some of the posts on this thread. Comments like 'never hear SNP supporters near me at Ibrox' and 'only know a couple and they're fair weather supporters' all help fill this narrative. Only 'real' Rangers supporters need apply. 

 

I actually think it's that mindset that's in the minority now. I think @pete nailed it; 60% don't care. They only care about who is playing upfront this weekend and who we might sign in January. They care about football, and only football. 

 

Whether people like it or not the Scottish society I was born into has changed out of all recognition. The SNP are the most popular party currently. Scottish independence is a distinct probability now, one that grows daily as Labour and the Tories veer further to the extremes and the UK heads towards huge, unclear social and economic change. There is a real possibility that a united Ireland and an independent Scotland could happen in my lifetime. Neither of those events will make me support Rangers any less.

This. I would go as far to say that most of the 20% of the Rangers indy supporters (if we are using that as a figure) also don't care about intrinsically linking their politics and their football team. My football team and my personal politics are separate entities. They don't effect the other. I only care if my credentials as a Rangers fan are questioned just because I don't pass some uber fan litmus test. That's when we start going down a dangerous road IMO

Edited September 7, 2018 by BlackSocksRedTops