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Bill

Ongoing issues with UEFA (two sanctions and counting)

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7 hours ago, der Berliner said:

Germany.

 

As far as I am concerned, the Dutch are no race, the Germans are none, and the British or Irish either. 

 

Point remains that it is taken out of the context here, as I would assume that those singing against the F*enians at Ibrox refer to the I.R.A. as well as those Yahoo hores that support them and give themselves the very same name. And the last thing we want is that band regard themselves as something like a "race" themselves.

 

With that in mind was the remark about supporters talking to the authorities, not some semi-politic, agenda driven institutions. Go out there and ask any Bluenose you meet and whether they have any sort of problem with the Irish. There will be none. 

 

 

Dutch British are a part of the Germanic race.

Irish are mostly of Celtic origen.

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17 minutes ago, pete said:

Dutch British are a part of the Germanic race.

Irish are mostly of Celtic origen.

Yes, and neither the Germans nor the Celts are a "race". 

 

Still, what needs to be pointed out to UEFA is that it is not the Irish we sing about, no matter whether they dislike the tone of the song as such. Or, to turn this into the macabre, if I had a relative killed by ETA and start shouting "F@ck ETA and their lot!" at a game, would that be deemed "anti-Catalan" racist behaviour?

 

As for FTP ... I advocated self-policing ever since the early 2000s. Have fan-stewards looking after their own and tell people to stop it or else. Will take weeks if not months, but that's IMHO the only way certain songs can be removed from the song sheet. And that song sheet must be agreed upon by supporters organizations and club ... so we actually have a leg to stand upon instead of having some agenda driven people telling us what is acceptable.

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4 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

Yes, and neither the Germans nor the Celts are a "race". 

 

Still, what needs to be pointed out to UEFA is that it is not the Irish we sing about, no matter whether they dislike the tone of the song as such. Or, to turn this into the macabre, if I had a relative killed by ETA and start shouting "F@ck ETA and their lot!" at a game, would that be deemed "anti-Catalan" racist behaviour?

 

As for FTP ... I advocated self-policing ever since the early 2000s. Have fan-stewards looking after their own and tell people to stop it or else. Will take weeks if not months, but that's IMHO the only way certain songs can be removed from the song sheet. And that song sheet must be agreed upon by supporters organizations and club ... so we actually have a leg to stand upon instead of having some agenda driven people telling us what is acceptable.

What is a race? it used to be based on Language and the English language is a Germanic language. Now it is possibly down to DNA and I think you will find that the Germanic people range from the Italian border where the Roman people are the biggest group,Switzerland Austria Germany, to Britain where the Anglo saxons  were a breakaway group of Germanic people. I have no idea why this is relevant to us singing the Billy boys but hey Ho.  

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1 hour ago, 917 said:

Any songs not about football must be considered a problem.

Gradually over the years since administration the atmosphere at Ibrox has been getting back to 1980s levels. Of course by kicking us out the league they also removed any potential punishment for these songs, as we had nothing left for them to take. The 2015 League Cup semi final was a good example of this. However the club is now back to a level where we do have something to lose, yet this seems to have been kept quiet and taken most of us by surprise. There needs to be a major response by the club & fans, giving up songs yes but also fighting the injustice of collective punishment & highlighting when other clubs fans target our Ulster Scots community. We need a supporters AGM or something. Alternatively we just pull out of Uefa competition altogether and settle for finishing 2nd every season.

What we need is a supporters organisation worthy of the name, not some quasi-corporate equity platform.

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3 minutes ago, Bill said:

What we need is a supporters organisation worthy of the name, not some quasi-corporate equity platform.

Totally true. People keep saying club 1872 should deal with it but the agenda of club 1872 is set up for a totally different reason.

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18 hours ago, 917 said:

I thought this at first, but it seems there has been a lot going on behind the scenes. ITK posters on FF (posting before this news was announced) say that FARE actually reported us 7 times last season, but the club persuaded Uefa not to charge us. Whether it was insufficient evidence or the club proving they had did all they could to prevent the singing I don’t know, nor do I know why these reports by FARE weren’t made public but maybe Uefa couldn’t be seen to condone sectarianism if they publicly found us not guilty (as they initially did in 2006). So it seems the club have known about & been fighting these charges for some time, but at the St Josephs game FARE finally obtained enough evidence to get us charged.

 

So the club are fighting these charges, & Uefa don’t find in favour of FARE every time. But it is all happening behind closed doors, apparently. Either way having the singing section led by a wee guy with a megaphone belting out TBB, songs about the UVF & Bobby Sands during European matches at Ibrox is clearly a bad idea. And if it happens again we will indeed be playing behind closed doors.

Fare, reports are available online,  you don't need to be ITK to access them.

Rangers were reported by them 3 times in 2018, twice in Europe and the December game against separate entity fc.

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10 minutes ago, gaspard said:

Rangers were reported by them 3 times in 2018, twice in Europe and the December game against separate entity fc.

That makes FARE conduct even more reprehensible considering they seem not to be attending OF games at the piggery. More evidence of their jaundiced agenda against our club. They will be aware attending the dump would mean reporting Shame FC.

Edited by cooponthewing

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11 hours ago, Bill said:

On the contrary, the answer is incredibly simple. The problem is persuading people to implement it.

Take  one section a stand how do you identify who was singing,  who was not singing who was stuttering and how many innocent fans do we ban to catch the culprits .

The only thing to do would be to shut the whole stand therefore depriving the well behaved fans the pleasure of supporting their team CCTV wont do any good the singer will just say he was yelling at the others to stop .

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32 minutes ago, cooponthewing said:

That makes FARE conduct even more reprehensible considering they seem not to be attending OF games at the piggery. More evidence of their jaundiced agenda against our club. They will be aware attending the dump would mean reporting Shame FC.

Even if they did visit the Piggery you can bet that their hearing would be very selective.

 

These people want nothing more than us to be thrown out of European competition and hamstrung so that we are nothing more than a cash cow to Scottish football but never able to compete for honours. Their agenda is twisted but the sad thing is that some of our fans are complicit in giving them exactly what they want. We have to be smarter than we have been.

 

This is a sea-change moment, as important as the day Souness signed Mo Johnstone in terms of how our club is going to be perceived. None of us can envisage going back to what the club did with regard to signings in the 1980's because we have seen where that change has taken us and the fnatastic players we have had (who just happened to have been catholic but who totally bought into the spirit of Rangers) since then. Dropping TBB and others from the the songbook and focusing on supporting the team properly leads us forward and will actually piss off FARE, the Green Brigade and the BBC a whole lot more than if we just sit in our bunker and continue to hand them the ammunition to really hurt us.

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8 hours ago, pete said:

Totally true. People keep saying club 1872 should deal with it but the agenda of club 1872 is set up for a totally different reason.

Im not sure I can agree with that Pete - the original aim was to protect club & defend the support.

 

Being subjected to punishment courtesy of a report from an organisation with a very questionable history & conduct, reporting to a extremely totalitarian Football Authority whose Articles would give most legislators a field day, ticks my boxes in terms of defending the support.

 

That said I do think the drive & initiative needs to come from within the club itself - I doubt, as histoty has shown, that it wil stop with TBB.

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