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Jeremy Corbyn suspended by Labour Party


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3 minutes ago, craig said:

1.  I don't think that the negotiations were last minute at all - they executed Article 50 and started the process - it isnt easy to get early agreement when only one side wants to actually get a deal done.

2. I don't ever recall anyone saying it would be easy to achieve.  There were over 64,000 documents (IIRC) that needed sifted through, compiled, opined upon and re-worked in the face of a new partnership.  That was never going to be easy and I have never seen anyone say it would be and, if they did, then those believing them were foolish. 

Re your first point, I disagree for a variety of  reasons but ultimately it’s subjective.  Although I would say that the EU 100% wants to do a deal.  It’s in everyone’s interest.  And it could still happen, but there is so little time left that I don’t think it will be much more than a skeleton trade deal. 
 

Re your second point , this was mentioned further up the thread.  It absolutely was sold as being the “easiest deal in human history”.

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12 hours ago, stewarty said:

There were very good reasons why the People's Vote was a sensible way to get Brexit done.  And if you think that Vote Leave was a grass roots campaign and not funded by wealthy donors acting in self-interest, I can't help you.

 

Are you being serious stewarty ?  People's Vote was no more & no less an attempt to reverse Brexit, not a "sensible way to get it done"

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12 hours ago, forlanssister said:

You shall vote again and again and again till I get the result I want.

 

:violin:

Exactly this.

 

At what point does democracy become undemocratic when all you do is refuse to accept a democratic vote and want another one immediately - maybe it is just my simpleton mind, but that doesnt seem very democratic to me "yes, we gave you a democratic vote, you voted what way ?  Nah, don't like that, we need to vote again until you vote the way we want you to"
 

Doesnt sound very democratic to me.

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1 minute ago, craig said:

Are you being serious stewarty ?  People's Vote was no more & no less an attempt to reverse Brexit, not a "sensible way to get it done"

Absolutely.  It would have absolutely killed any ambiguity about the outcome or any moans that folk who voted to leave didn’t know what they were voting for. 

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Just now, craig said:

Exactly this.

 

At what point does democracy become undemocratic when all you do is refuse to accept a democratic vote and want another one immediately - maybe it is just my simpleton mind, but that doesnt seem very democratic to me "yes, we gave you a democratic vote, you voted what way ?  Nah, don't like that, we need to vote again until you vote the way we want you to"
 

Doesnt sound very democratic to me.

No government can bind the policies and actions of a successor government.  

People have a right to change their mind. 

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8 minutes ago, stewarty said:

 It absolutely was sold as being the “easiest deal in human history”.

Absolute, was it?

 

Deary me.  You're so anti-Brexit, your tone and language is quite comical.  Try to be a bit more serious, instead of taking the Owen Jones 'They're all working class morons' approach.

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7 minutes ago, stewarty said:

Re your first point, I disagree for a variety of  reasons but ultimately it’s subjective.  Although I would say that the EU 100% wants to do a deal.  It’s in everyone’s interest.  And it could still happen, but there is so little time left that I don’t think it will be much more than a skeleton trade deal. 
 

Re your second point , this was mentioned further up the thread.  It absolutely was sold as being the “easiest deal in human history”.

We will definitely agree to disagree on the first point.  The EU have to be seen to at least be willing to get a deal done, despite them not wanting to.  I have very little doubt that they never wanted to do a deal.  Why would they ?  Everything points to them wanting to keep the UK in the Union - we are one of only 6 net contributors, at a time when some of the PIGS economies were struggling heavily and even greater reliance would be placed on net contributors, and they also knew that the loss of the UK could become their "house of cards", particularly as right-leaning parties in Europe were starting to gain more traction (Italy France to name but two) - and those opposition parties were fairly vocal about wanting to remove their nations from the EU if successful.

 

The EU never wanted to get a deal done, but had to be seen to be trying in the interests of democracy.  Their best bet was to do exactly what they did.  Publicly appear to be supportive of a deal but privately putting every obstacle they could in the way of it.  

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Just now, Gonzo79 said:

Absolute, was it?

 

Deary me.  You're so anti-Brexit, your tone and language is quite comical.  Try to be a bit more serious, instead of taking the Owen Jones 'They're all working class morons'

Oh I’m sorry did I say some hurty words?

 

What exactly is the problem with being anti-Brexit?

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