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26 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Agree completely.  It is a piss take.  This anti Irish nonsense needs addressed.  They are either Irish or Scottish, not both.  We are not talking here about people who are first or second generation immigrants.  

 

All of that aside, I wish they would just stop singing stuff to the offended.  I am sick of them feeding Dornan, Yousef, Haggerty et alia.  It just adds to the myth that we are full of hate while they remain the good guys. 

While agreeing with everything else you've said I think you can be both Irish and Scottish, or indeed Indian and Scottish or Italian and Scottish or wherever and Scottish, I don't think it's a binary choice. Nationality and identity is a funny thing and differs from person to person. While legally someone might be 'British', been born here, live here, have a UK passport and identify with all the cultural aspects associated with that, they can still have an attachment, however emotional, to another country that a parent or grandparent is from. 

 

Personally, you have to go far back in my lineage to find an ancestor from another country, so my identity isn't a question for me. But my wife wasn't born in the UK, doesn't have a British passport and certainly doesn't see herself as British, or Scottish, no matter what affection and emotional attachment she now has for it. My children are being raised in Glasgow, they're Scottish, but they have an attachment to their mother's home, they have cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents there, I suspect they'll always have an affection for it. They might even pass this on to their children too, who knows. 

 

When I lived in Australia I found it interesting to speak with people who had literally fled persecution in their 'home country' before arriving in Australia. These people considered themselves Australian but retained an affection and cultural attachment to where they were born, despite the sometimes awful treatment they'd encountered there. That attachment was passed to their children. When I lived in Australia I didn't stop being Scottish either. 

 

As I said at the start I think you're correct about this being blown out of proportion and being taken a lot more seriously than it's intended, no one is seriously calling for 3rd generation Irish to be repatriated after all. But, someone born in Scotland, to parents born in Scotland, can still have an emotional tie and affection to another country and feel targeted, I think. 

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3 hours ago, JohnMc said:

But, someone born in Scotland, to parents born in Scotland, can still have an emotional tie and affection to another country and feel targeted, I think

I agree but the song is aimed at the type who attends football matches, waves an Irish tricolor and sings songs about the Provos and the Fields of Athenry, whilst also opposing all things British.

 

I'd have thought that was obvious.

 

Like a huge amount of Scots, I have ancestry from Ireland (as in Irish and Ulster/Scots) but think this is a ridiculous overreaction to run of the mill West of Scotland football rivalry.  The onslaught will doubtless continue - they want us dead and buried (Rangers and Scottish Unionism).

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3 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

While agreeing with everything else you've said I think you can be both Irish and Scottish, or indeed Indian and Scottish or Italian and Scottish or wherever and Scottish, I don't think it's a binary choice. Nationality and identity is a funny thing and differs from person to person. While legally someone might be 'British', been born here, live here, have a UK passport and identify with all the cultural aspects associated with that, they can still have an attachment, however emotional, to another country that a parent or grandparent is from. 

 

Personally, you have to go far back in my lineage to find an ancestor from another country, so my identity isn't a question for me. But my wife wasn't born in the UK, doesn't have a British passport and certainly doesn't see herself as British, or Scottish, no matter what affection and emotional attachment she now has for it. My children are being raised in Glasgow, they're Scottish, but they have an attachment to their mother's home, they have cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents there, I suspect they'll always have an affection for it. They might even pass this on to their children too, who knows. 

 

When I lived in Australia I found it interesting to speak with people who had literally fled persecution in their 'home country' before arriving in Australia. These people considered themselves Australian but retained an affection and cultural attachment to where they were born, despite the sometimes awful treatment they'd encountered there. That attachment was passed to their children. When I lived in Australia I didn't stop being Scottish either. 

 

As I said at the start I think you're correct about this being blown out of proportion and being taken a lot more seriously than it's intended, no one is seriously calling for 3rd generation Irish to be repatriated after all. But, someone born in Scotland, to parents born in Scotland, can still have an emotional tie and affection to another country and feel targeted, I think. 

I agree with the point you make about identity.  I won't say any more on what is an immensely complex issue.

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15 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I agree but the song is aimed at the type who attend football matches, waves an Irish tricolor and sings songs about the Provos and the Fields of Athenry, whilst also opposing all things British.

 

I'd have thought that was obvious.

 

I'd imagine like a huge amount of Scots, I have ancestry from Ireland (as in Irish and Ulster/Scots) but think this is a ridiculous overreaction to run of the mill West of Scotland football rivalry.  The onslaught will doubtless continue - they want us dead and buried (Rangers and Scottish Unionism).

I don't think anyone is disputing this is being used for political and mischief reasons, I certainly wasn't. 

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1 hour ago, craig said:

So quick to support you mean, presumably ?

No, the club has condemned the fans prior to a trial, based on a video of dubious origin and political pressure, but they weren't so quick to condemn the players.

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1 hour ago, Blue Moon said:

I agree with the point you make about identity.  I won't say any more on what is an immensely complex issue.

For me thats essentially the frustration we all have.  Whilst it suits those with an agenda to jump on anything that fits their narrative, its a complex societal issue that is being boiled down to a few words and songs and it isn't doing anything other than continue to sow division and attract attention to something that is generally fading away from day-to-day life for the majority of people.

 

Of course, it should not be played down either, but there is a real lack of honest discourse.

 

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while i am far from convinced anything wrong was sung here the history of the famine song is typically depressing. 

 

other clubs come up with songs to the tune of sloop john b

we come up with an excellent club related version. 

someone comes up with a bigoted version. 

everyone sings the bigoted version of course. 

good version ruined. song gone. arrests and club fined etc. 

 

Beach Boys still rule. 

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28 minutes ago, the gunslinger said:

while i am far from convinced anything wrong was sung here the history of the famine song is typically depressing. 

 

other clubs come up with songs to the tune of sloop john b

we come up with an excellent club related version. 

someone comes up with a bigoted version. 

everyone sings the bigoted version of course. 

good version ruined. song gone. arrests and club fined etc. 

 

Beach Boys still rule. 

What are you talking about?

 

I can't remember hearing the famine song at the ground but you do hear 4 lads often enough.

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2 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

I agree but the song is aimed at the type who attends football matches, waves an Irish tricolor and sings songs about the Provos and the Fields of Athenry, whilst also opposing all things British.

 

I'd have thought that was obvious.

 

I'd imagine like a huge amount of Scots, I have ancestry from Ireland (as in Irish and Ulster/Scots) but think this is a ridiculous overreaction to run of the mill West of Scotland football rivalry.  The onslaught will doubtless continue - they want us dead and buried (Rangers and Scottish Unionism).

It's just one song after another!!, what will be the next one??,  if any song is outlawed then it can't be sung as it is only damaging the club, however I can't get my head around why it is a Rangers FC problem when the song was being sung miles away from Ibrox!!.

Separate Entity FC can sing/do what they want and it is not fair.

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