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31 minutes ago, stewarty said:

It’s definitely a factor.  But I’m not sure its as significant as the pandemic/brexit, or why it would be a cause for laughter.  

Changes to IR35 are an attempt to increase tax revenue.

 

I think that it reduces productivity and the knock on effect will be reduced tax revenue.

 

That's not so obvious in areas like logistics but it will be in areas like software development.

 

It's extremely funny because the fundamental problem is the fiscal deficit. The intelligent solution would be to create conditions for economic growth and reduce the vast waste of government spending. The cretinous solution would be tax grabs. The latter is always chosen because it is thought to be easy. It always results in negative second order effects. You can point this out in advance and be ignored. You can point this out afterwards and also be ignored. All that is left to do is laugh.

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2 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Changes to IR35 are an attempt to increase tax revenue.

 

I think that it reduces productivity and the knock on effect will be reduced tax revenue.

 

That's not so obvious in areas like logistics but it will be in areas like software development.

 

It's extremely funny because the fundamental problem is the fiscal deficit. The intelligent solution would be to create conditions for economic growth and reduce the vast waste of government spending. The cretinous solution would be tax grabs. The latter is always chosen because it is thought to be easy. It always results in negative second order effects. You can point this out in advance and be ignored. You can point this out afterwards and also be ignored. All that is left to do is laugh.

the bottom line was that self employment was being exploited unfairly by businesses and individuals to avoid tax, and IR35 was attempting to stop disguised employment.
 

Back onto drivers, It’s definitely a factor in the logistics industry which we discussed earlier, with agencies commonly used to plug gaps and provide flexibility.
 

Agencies will always have their place but I know most businesses still prefer to have their own people to ensure they get quality and consistency of work.   Overseeing agency drivers is a hassle Because of the disruption to ensure they are compliant, trained and have the info needed to do the job to the same level as the permanent driver who has done the job for years… and you then have all extra work needed to supervise them and correct any issues that naturally arise because they don’t have the same level of job knowledge. 
 

so in this instance, whilst self employed contractors can help boost productivity by providing short term help, I’m not convinced they provide the same benefit as having good quality driving staff permanently on the books.

 

debate over tax policy is perhaps a different thread but I don’t disagree about the inanity of the usual back and forth that happens in political debate.  

 

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On 28/09/2021 at 12:43, alexscottislegend said:

It's not panic buying which has caused the fuel shortage, it's lack of planning and foresight by an incompetent government which didn't allow for the shortfall in drivers predicted long before Brexit. Same as how Tim Martin is bemoaning the fact that he is short of labour.

Not just Govt. Also RHA, DVLA and individual companies have all been asleep since 2016 and have now been landed with the little shit Grant Shapps who is about as useful as a petrol station selling only screenwash.  

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1 hour ago, stewarty said:

the bottom line was that self employment was being exploited unfairly by businesses and individuals to avoid tax, and IR35 was attempting to stop disguised employment.

It's not unfair exploitation and individuals have a duty to avoid tax.

 

Given the outlook that I stated earlier there is little point in engaging with the other stuff.

 

All I can do is wait, and laugh, while productivity grinds to a halt.

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16 hours ago, Berksbear said:

There are supply shortages all over in the world, its about time we started strengthening our own critical infrastructure and stopped relying on unreliable nations... 

Exactly. No more cheap imported labour in the infrastructure. This is only ever a stop gap. I'm glad that the market is driving (excuse pun) wages up a bit, as long as terms and conditions follow. Then it will would be more attractive to new drivers and possibly some who retired early due to the same conditions and pay. 

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2 hours ago, ChelseaBoy said:

Exactly. No more cheap imported labour in the infrastructure. This is only ever a stop gap. I'm glad that the market is driving (excuse pun) wages up a bit, as long as terms and conditions follow. Then it will would be more attractive to new drivers and possibly some who retired early due to the same conditions and pay. 

Surely you're not suggesting that Brexit might actually be an opportunity to correct structural flaws arising from years of EU membership? Or that what we are seeing now is not so much a problem as a solution in progress? Because if that's not what you're suggesting then I'd like to do so.

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2 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

It's not unfair exploitation and individuals have a duty to avoid tax.

 

Given the outlook that I stated earlier there is little point in engaging with the other stuff.

 

All I can do is wait, and laugh, while productivity grinds to a halt.

It was legal, so on that basis it was fair.  But as I said, it was exploited to disguise employment which definitely isn’t fair, hence why IR35 came about. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bill said:

Surely you're not suggesting that Brexit might actually be an opportunity to correct structural flaws arising from years of EU membership? Or that what we are seeing now is not so much a problem as a solution in progress? Because if that's not what you're suggesting then I'd like to do so.

I was and your suggestion is welcome :) 

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19 hours ago, ChelseaBoy said:

Exactly. No more cheap imported labour in the infrastructure. This is only ever a stop gap. I'm glad that the market is driving (excuse pun) wages up a bit, as long as terms and conditions follow. Then it will would be more attractive to new drivers and possibly some who retired early due to the same conditions and pay. 

I'm not sure there is much evidence that wages are being driven up, bar in  a few specialist sectors: quite the contrary, I would say, with many people having to take 2 even 3 part-time jobs instead of one permanent secure post. If our economy is going to be kickstarted, then I wait expectantly for manufacturing and agriculture to be reborn here to challenge the dominance of the service sector.

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