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Russia, Ukraine


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2 hours ago, Bill said:

Why are UK supply flights to Ukraine being routed around Germany? 

Der Berliner could illuminate further?

 

Germany has a reliance upon Russia for a considerable portion of their energy needs. There are a number of pipelines carrying gas and oil direct from Russia to Germany.

 

I suspect the current Chancellor, Olaf Scholz does not want to upset Putin and has refused the use of airspace.

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We just cannot help ourselves getting involved can we.

 

Here's a thought, maybe confirm that NATO will not push ever more East until it is right up against the Russian border. Why is having Ukraine and Georgia so important to NATO if it isn't to antagonize Russia? Also, is Western pressure on Lukashenko in Belarus designed to destabilise a key Russian ally and hope for an administration that looks more kindly on the West/NATO?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ChelseaBoy said:

We just cannot help ourselves getting involved can we.

 

Here's a thought, maybe confirm that NATO will not push ever more East until it is right up against the Russian border. Why is having Ukraine and Georgia so important to NATO if it isn't to antagonize Russia? Also, is Western pressure on Lukashenko in Belarus designed to destabilise a key Russian ally and hope for an administration that looks more kindly on the West/NATO?

Could it be because we see Ukraine and Georgia as OUR buffer against Russian aggression. Putin's mission seems to be to reverse the humiliating loss of empire that Russia suffered when the USSR collapsed. The Baltic states and the rest of the Eastern Bloc are now part of Nato and the fear has to be that Russia would only be encouraged to keep pushing if Ukraine was dragged back into the Russian fold.

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1 hour ago, 26th of foot said:

Der Berliner could illuminate further?

 

Germany has a reliance upon Russia for a considerable portion of their energy needs. There are a number of pipelines carrying gas and oil direct from Russia to Germany.

 

I suspect the current Chancellor, Olaf Scholz does not want to upset Putin and has refused the use of airspace.

It's not as if it has much to offer anyway but I suspect Germany would be unwilling to fulfil its obligation if a NATO member was threatened or attacked by Russia. Germany has always put its own interests before its regional responsibilities. Berlin seems to think engagement with Russia will keep it safe but we all know how that story ends. 

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It all seems like Cold War, the sequel.  More of the same but slightly diluted.  The West's naval-gazing is undoubtedly encouraging the Russians.  

 

I was planning to visit Georgia in the next two years.  I hope Putin's ambitions don't put that on hold.  

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59 minutes ago, Bill said:

Could it be because we see Ukraine and Georgia as OUR buffer against Russian aggression. Putin's mission seems to be to reverse the humiliating loss of empire that Russia suffered when the USSR collapsed. The Baltic states and the rest of the Eastern Bloc are now part of Nato and the fear has to be that Russia would only be encouraged to keep pushing if Ukraine was dragged back into the Russian fold.

Yes, they might well serve as our buffer, but also Russia's buffer, so a solution would be to not subsume them into NATO - something that would definately lead to invasion by Russian troops - and would the West send troops on the ground? I wouldnt bet on it and Germany certainly wouldn't. Why not leave as they are which would reduce tension all round? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ChelseaBoy said:

Yes, they might well serve as our buffer, but also Russia's buffer, so a solution would be to not subsume them into NATO - something that would definately lead to invasion by Russian troops - and would the West send troops on the ground? I wouldnt bet on it and Germany certainly wouldn't. Why not leave as they are which would reduce tension all round? 

It's not entirely clear how a buffer is maintained by Russia invading Ukraine. NATO has already pulled back from Ukraine becoming a member, while rightly refusing to leave to door open to Russia be saying membership will never take place. Ukraine is already a very large buffer and the only country looking to change that is Russia. If the West is going to take a stand, it would be as well to do so on Russia's frontier and not in Central Europe. I'm sure of one thing ... appeasement won't work with Putin and that's precisely what he's hoping for.

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