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Russia, Ukraine


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5 hours ago, Bill said:

It's not entirely clear how a buffer is maintained by Russia invading Ukraine. NATO has already pulled back from Ukraine becoming a member, while rightly refusing to leave to door open to Russia be saying membership will never take place. Ukraine is already a very large buffer and the only country looking to change that is Russia. If the West is going to take a stand, it would be as well to do so on Russia's frontier and not in Central Europe. I'm sure of one thing ... appeasement won't work with Putin and that's precisely what he's hoping for.

Exactly, the buffer as it exists at the moment is fine. It seems it is the push by Ukraine and the support it is getting from certain areas within NATO and the EU which is encouraging Ukraine and ensuring the Russian forces will not leave the border area. 

 

This all boils down to the unsatisfactory way the talks on German unification and their joining NATO concluded with the both sides claiming a different understanding when it came to other former Soviet countries joining NATO too. As with most things I doubt there is isn't blame on both sides.

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57 minutes ago, ChelseaBoy said:

Exactly, the buffer as it exists at the moment is fine. It seems it is the push by Ukraine and the support it is getting from certain areas within NATO and the EU which is encouraging Ukraine and ensuring the Russian forces will not leave the border area. 

 

This all boils down to the unsatisfactory way the talks on German unification and their joining NATO concluded with the both sides claiming a different understanding when it came to other former Soviet countries joining NATO too. As with most things I doubt there is isn't blame on both sides.

I'm not convinced NATO did actively persuade Ukraine to join. What I do know is the EU openly courted Ukraine to seek membership. Russia on the other hand is trying to re-ignite the myth that is has a natural right to a "sphere of influence" and that it should be free to re-establish a zone of dependent countries around its borders ... irrespective of what the people of those countries might want, something they clearly signalled by rushing to join both NATO and the EU. It's essential we don't allow Russia to signal it's self-image by placing millions of Europeans in thrall.

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according to the Westminster party animal we are prepared to send in troops  meanwhile sleepy Joe is sending in 8000 to guard the Ukrainian  border might be better guarding his own southern border first 

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If we're sending troops we need to be sending them to Poland and Romania to help stop the inevitable migrant flood that this will trigger.

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I think the UK Govt and MSM are getting ahead of themselves. Let's see if Russia is prepared to cause itself massive economic harm over this. All the speculation is coming from Western Govts and media. I would be very very surprised if they take this action.

 

Crimea is/was not an outlier for an invasion of Ukraine as much as they like to paint it as such. From a Russian perspective it had a very particular social, cultural and historical just as much as strategic justification. 

 

I just think this will blow over, and hopefully so.

The EU may even send a strongly worded note to Moscow - it could get that bad!!

 

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1 hour ago, ChelseaBoy said:

I think the UK Govt and MSM are getting ahead of themselves. Let's see if Russia is prepared to cause itself massive economic harm over this. All the speculation is coming from Western Govts and media. I would be very very surprised if they take this action.

 

Crimea is/was not an outlier for an invasion of Ukraine as much as they like to paint it as such. From a Russian perspective it had a very particular social, cultural and historical just as much as strategic justification. 

 

I just think this will blow over, and hopefully so.

The EU may even send a strongly worded note to Moscow - it could get that bad!!

 

The EU have been posted missing so far 

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22 minutes ago, compo said:

The EU have been posted missing so far 

The EU is always posted missing whenever posturing might not be enough. 

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54 minutes ago, Bill said:

The EU is always posted missing whenever posturing might not be enough. 

The germans are shitting themselves in case Vlad stops the gas serves them right for getting rid of nuclear power and wanting to be green 

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2 minutes ago, compo said:

The germans are shitting themselves in case Vlad stops the gas serves them right for getting rid of nuclear power and wanting to be green 

In a strange twist of irony the Germans have become a caricature of the Jewish stereotype they once ridiculed and tried to exterminate. Germany seeks to accumulate wealth at all costs, like the greedy little pigs of Europe they undoubtedly are. They refuse to spend their treasures on their own defence, with most of their tanks, aircraft and ships in such a state of disrepair they are effectively inoperable. And they are so dependent on Russian gas that their only alternative is to choke the rest of the continent by burning their horrible brown coal - or perhaps their extensive sub-Mediterranean population can re-deployed to massive treadmills to power their prestigious VW factories? Germany should be assuming major responsibility for the security of Europe but will instead take the cheaper option of selling out to whatever Putin demands.

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  • 3 weeks later...

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