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Russia, Ukraine


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3 hours ago, forlanssister said:

And your contribution here other than whataboutery and two/three/four etc wrongs make a right?

 

....

No, I don't think that is correct.

 

Please take all the time that you need to reread the comments. You can then take a little more time to try to understand them. When you reach the point where something doesn't make sense to you that would be a great opportunity for you to discuss it. Try to ask questions about the bits you either don't understand or disagree with.

 

See Stewarty's most recent post for an example of how to actually discuss something.

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4 hours ago, Bill said:

Like Ukrainians and Nazis

No, like Putin and Hitler. There is no serious similarity yet many appear to fear that he will act in a similar way.

 

There is a well documented neo-nazi problem in the Ukraine. Fixating on the fact that the term "nazi" originated from and explicitly German political party avoids the point of substance.

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1 minute ago, ranger_syntax said:

No, like Putin and Hitler. There is no serious similarity yet many appear to fear that he will act in a similar way.

I think any doubt sailed long ago.

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4 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

No, I don't think that is correct.

 

Please take all the time that you need to reread the comments. You can then take a little more time to try to understand them. When you reach the point where something doesn't make sense to you that would be a great opportunity for you to discuss it. Try to ask questions about the bits you either don't understand or disagree with.

 

See Stewarty's most recent post for an example of how to actually discuss something.

It makes no sense whatsoever that you could visit Russia and not meet one single person that wasn't content with Putin and his regime but they say if you don't want to see something then you won't.

 

It wasn't necessary to seek it out it was there for the world to see overlooking St Basil's, Red Square and the Kremlin.

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13 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

With no support the Ukraine would be defeated much sooner than otherwise. I can't say how long that would take.

 

The full impact on the Ukrainian people is difficult to say. A few things are undeniable. Firstly that far less would be killed. Secondly that a far greater level of economic activity would remain in the Ukraine. Thirdly the Ukraine would switch from being a vassal state of the U.S.A. to being a vassal state of Russia.

 

We don't know what Putin would do next. Although I was unsure before I now think that we can rule out an attack on N.A.T.O. countries. Putin is on record as saying that direct convential conflict with N.A.T.O. would be a mismatch where Russia loses. He also implied that the likely nuclear escalation would be very bad for everyone. I also think that the idea of him doing something in Finland is a fairy story. I have yet to see anybody articulate why he would do anything there. Happy to be persuaded otherwise on Finland.

 

In my opinion a lot of the talk about what Russia would do next is fueled by historical ignorance. Many are so gripped by a single historical episode that they can only understand the present by jamming modern figures into the place of past figures. (See cult of Churchill and so on)

 

If I was to guess I would say Russia would turn attention away from this declining continent and towards Asia like all other sensible nations. 

To my mind, given that he's gone after Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, the Donbas "breakaways", Transinitria... whilst threatening other neighbours not to join NATO... its a couple of decades of clear intent that he wants to expand his empire using the spectre of nuclear war as a deterrent from anyone interfering. 

 

He's bitten off more than he can chew this time though.  The West's containment/appeasement strategy has failed and now its clear we have to do what is needed to defeat him.   The idea of an all out war with Russia is not appealing, so i suspect our end game is to starve the Russian state economically to the point where they revolt and over throw Putin - how long that takes, who knows.  The quicker we move away from any form of dependency on their oil/gas the better.

 

Where i do agree with you is that I think once Putin is gone, however long that takes, the western world will be quick to get its hands on Russia's oil and gas infrastructure.  

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8 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

No, I don't think that is correct.

 

Please take all the time that you need to reread the comments. You can then take a little more time to try to understand them. When you reach the point where something doesn't make sense to you that would be a great opportunity for you to discuss it. Try to ask questions about the bits you either don't understand or disagree with.

 

See Stewarty's most recent post for an example of how to actually discuss something.

Careful now - I agree with the general tone of response to many of your points.  I'd rather debate the substance, but at times the sneering condescension in your posts is only matched by their vagueness.

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IMHO, Russia will more or less "secure" the regions with a Russian-ethnic background and pro-Russian people. As well as a strip of land connecting these areas to Crimeria and that part of the Black Sea coast in the Southeast. They will not allow the Ukrainian army to build up any sort of powerful resistance or potential threat, hence they will continue to lay waste to rail tracks, roads and airports, as well as targetting military-related installations all across Ukraine. They have the means and use them. They could use rather different means though, and I don`t mean weapons of mass destructions, but stuff the US used from day one in Iraq.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

IMHO, Russia will more or less "secure" the regions with a Russian-ethnic background and pro-Russian people.

How convenient would it be if these two characteristics always overlapped as Putin's apologists would have us believe?

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Being a man of some extensive leisure, now that I've completed my masters dissertation, I spent some time today reading about these convenient and much-used accusations of nazis, neo-nazis, fascists, far-right, etc. I haven't devoted as much time to this study as I have to radiogenic dating of certain magmatic systems but I have reached a basic conclusion that, as commonly defined, they apply as much if not more to Kremlin thugs like Putin and to the broader Russia political system and methods of governance. I've also concluded that rocks are much more trustworthy than Russians and none I've studied have ever threatened nuclear holocaust upon me or mine. 

 

I've no great personal interest in Ukraine or what it does within its own borders, any more that I would fret about the internal affairs of other countries. But the instabilities caused by Russia's addiction to political imperialism and colonising its neighbours has ramifications that adversely affect the whole of Europe and that does concern me. I've long believed another period of continental conflict was probably inevitable but hoped it wouldn't come in my lifetime, now I'm not so sure. While the vast majority of European countries seem to have evolved beyond violently land-grabbing other people's property, clearly Russia has not and this dichotomy will have to be resolved sooner or later. 

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