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30 minutes ago, buster. said:

Simplistic.....but I think the war, killing and suffering should end and the Ukraine conceding some territory is probably inevitable. But there should be a lot more detail sorted out to draw the now necessary red lines on both sides of the dispute.

 

The alternative is a lot more scary.

The thing is, Putin isn't likely to be reasonable when negotiating the position of any "red lines". Sorting out "a lot more detail" with a belligerent nutter isn't a straightforward task, no matter what pay grade the negotiator is on. And could we ever really be confident Putin would respect whatever detail was sorted out?

 

Vlad seems to want a large chunk of Eastern Europe to fall back under the Russian sphere of influence regardless of those countries own ambitions towards Westernisation. Is that tough shit for them? Do we let Putin have his way with them as an appeasement, in the hope that he'll behave himself in future?

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1 hour ago, buster. said:

The major players should be making huge efforts to force this, not encouraging the Ukraine to keep fighting.

 

Neither Russia nor our masters are going to end this any time soon.

 

Why would the U.S.A. stop this? The Ukraine is carrying all of the risk on the N.A.T.O. side. The U.S.A. does not care about the poor people in the Ukraine.

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15 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Neither Russia nor our masters are going to end this any time soon.

 

Why would the U.S.A. stop this? The Ukraine is carrying all of the risk on the N.A.T.O. side. The U.S.A. does not care about the poor people in the Ukraine.

Yes, what should happen is very different to what is happening.

 

Nor do they care for ordinary consumers in allied countries, nor for that matter, in their own.

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33 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Neither Russia nor our masters are going to end this any time soon.

 

Why would the U.S.A. stop this? The Ukraine is carrying all of the risk on the N.A.T.O. side. The U.S.A. does not care about the poor people in the Ukraine.

Constantly referring to the US as “our masters” is absurd, childish even. We all got your point a long time ago … you don’t like American foreign policy. To repeat it again and again just makes you look like you’re trying too hard. 
 

Russia and the US are doing what major powers always do, riding roughshod over the weak. In the context of Ukraine the guilty party is Russia. Period. 

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51 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Feels like we just moved one millimetre closer to the annihilation of the special relationship fairy story.

It’s clearly not a fairy story. Perhaps it’s just not what you think we believe it to be. 

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2 hours ago, Thinker said:

Vlad seems to want a large chunk of Eastern Europe to fall back under the Russian sphere of influence regardless of those countries own ambitions towards Westernisation.

Which chunk are you talking about?

 

If not the Ukraine then can you say what you base this on?

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3 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Which chunk are you talking about?

 

If not the Ukraine then can you say what you base this on?

He may have been referring to South Ossetia in Georgia, or the propping up of the Lukashenko regime in Belarus who have been voted out in the last two elections which have been fixed leading to mass demonstrations and arrests and journos taken off planes etc etc. Plus the threats to Moldova.

 

Just off the top of my head. 

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5 minutes ago, ChelseaBoy said:

He may have been referring to South Ossetia in Georgia, or the propping up of the Lukashenko regime in Belarus who have been voted out in the last two elections which have been fixed leading to mass demonstrations and arrests and journos taken off planes etc etc. Plus the threats to Moldova.

 

Just off the top of my head. 

Well I don't really consider South Ossetia to be in Europe. We can leave that aside though as, like Belarus, it is already in the Russian sphere of influence.

 

Totally ignorant of the situation in Moldova so far.

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