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Lithium battery fires


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On 03/08/2022 at 15:22, stewarty said:

Thank goodness for that - I have not long ordered an EV!  😁

Whatever powers the bus in that clip, there's no doubting the fire issues with Lithium ion batteries. The main defence quoted seems to be classic whataboutery, with EV fires said to be much less likely than EV's. What this doesn't take into account is that most EV's are relatively new, whereas most IC car fires involve older cars. No one will know the true level of risk for some time. We also have a continual change of battery design and (I read) a progression towards safer lithium-iron-phosphate batteries that are lighter and have better charge/discharge rates than current lithium ion. After that, solid state universal batteries that fit all cars, much like current IC car batteries. We'll eventually get to a range of TVs that actually meet the wider market needs. In the meantime I wouldn't touch them - too pricey, too long to charge, too dependent on access to charging. Long live diesel 4x4.

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EV's cause major issues for emergency services in an accident. Parts of the car can apparently become live, and a damaged battery can spontaneously combust. A major problem is transporting and storing the damaged vehicles safely.

Edited by forlanssister
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On 03/08/2022 at 15:22, stewarty said:

Thank goodness for that - I have not long ordered an EV!  😁

Out of interest, what were the main buying points for you and how will you cope with the issue of charging? What is the projected value retention for EV's. I'm also about to start looking for a replacement car and wondered if a hybrid option would be worth considering ... I have a lot of finding out to do.

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6 hours ago, Bill said:

Out of interest, what were the main buying points for you and how will you cope with the issue of charging? What is the projected value retention for EV's. I'm also about to start looking for a replacement car and wondered if a hybrid option would be worth considering ... I have a lot of finding out to do.

It’s a company car and it’s the tax incentive that’s driving my decision.  That and cheaper running costs (cost of charging v fuel)

 

Hybrid battery ranges are around 25-35 roughly on average and, combined with the petrol engine they can get some impressive sounding mpg’s, however you need to keep it charged to achieve anything like it.   If you run purely on petrol then the mpg drops significantly to the point where it’s not economical.

 

I’m going for a Kia Niro EV and that’s got an advertised range of 285 miles.   So most weeks that will cover the majority of my commute/running around even if it doesn’t quite achieve that number irl driving conditions


So my calculation is that charging once or twice a week is much less of a ball ache than having to do it daily, as I also don’t have a drive to install a charge point at home… however with some tweaks to my routine I can build in top up charges at supermarkets and access public charge points (a lot of which are free for the time being, in Scotland anyway).  It’s a little bit of a gamble but ordering a new diesel with the tax disincentives they now attract, just isn’t worth it. 

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, stewarty said:

It’s a company car and it’s the tax incentive that’s driving my decision.  That and cheaper running costs (cost of charging v fuel)

 

Hybrid battery ranges are around 25-35 roughly on average and, combined with the petrol engine they can get some impressive sounding mpg’s, however you need to keep it charged to achieve anything like it.   If you run purely on petrol then the mpg drops significantly to the point where it’s not economical.

 

I’m going for a Kia Niro EV and that’s got an advertised range of 285 miles.   So most weeks that will cover the majority of my commute/running around even if it doesn’t quite achieve that number irl driving conditions


So my calculation is that charging once or twice a week is much less of a ball ache than having to do it daily, as I also don’t have a drive to install a charge point at home… however with some tweaks to my routine I can build in top up charges at supermarkets and access public charge points (a lot of which are free for the time being, in Scotland anyway).  It’s a little bit of a gamble but ordering a new diesel with the tax disincentives they now attract, just isn’t worth it. 

Interesting, especially the hybrid info. I really need to sit down soon and research the tax situation, etc but there's no way an EV would do it for me as things stand. Other than short local journeys, my main use involves 300 - 500 miles round trip, sometimes more and often to quite remote locations (interestingly I did notice a charge point in Scourie of all places the other day). I couldn't even make the trip to Ibrox and back on Saturday without a stopover to recharge an EV battery. At the moment, even when I can't guarantee diesel being available in evenings or weekends in places like the far northwest, I can always strap a 5 gallon jerry can in the boot to compensate. So unless or until I can charge in 15 minutes or less and guarantee not having to queue or wait for a charge point, EV's just don't do the job I require, especially in cold weather. When they eventually do I'll be happy to take advantage. In the meantime, I'll have to suck it up as far as tax is concerned. I think the other thing that worries me at the moment is the fast pace of changing EV technology, which is going to kill any hope of half-decent value retention when it comes time to sell. 

 

I do feel a bit unfairly persecuted when some urbanite civil servant demands I pay over-the-odds road tax and get banned from city centres because I drive a 4x4 diesel.  What are you supposed to drive when there's six inches of snow on a hill road out of Ullapool?

Edited by Bill
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15 hours ago, Bill said:

Whatever powers the bus in that clip, ... 

Did you honestly think that fire was on an electric powered bus or are you so used to posting inaccurate stuff, it didn't really matter ?

 

Given your reply to yesterdays embarrassment was that you didn't care, I'm guessing the latter. 

 

 

 

Edited by buster.
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8 hours ago, Bill said:

Interesting, especially the hybrid info. I really need to sit down soon and research the tax situation, etc but there's no way an EV would do it for me as things stand. Other than short local journeys, my main use involves 300 - 500 miles round trip, sometimes more and often to quite remote locations (interestingly I did notice a charge point in Scourie of all places the other day). I couldn't even make the trip to Ibrox and back on Saturday without a stopover to recharge an EV battery. At the moment, even when I can't guarantee diesel being available in evenings or weekends in places like the far northwest, I can always strap a 5 gallon jerry can in the boot to compensate. So unless or until I can charge in 15 minutes or less and guarantee not having to queue or wait for a charge point, EV's just don't do the job I require, especially in cold weather. When they eventually do I'll be happy to take advantage. In the meantime, I'll have to suck it up as far as tax is concerned. I think the other thing that worries me at the moment is the fast pace of changing EV technology, which is going to kill any hope of half-decent value retention when it comes time to sell. 

 

I do feel a bit unfairly persecuted when some urbanite civil servant demands I pay over-the-odds road tax and get banned from city centres because I drive a 4x4 diesel.  What are you supposed to drive when there's six inches of snow on a hill road out of Ullapool?

It wont work for some folk, I do appreciate.  

 

In terms of company car tax, its a benefit in kind, which is calculated based on the list value of the car multiplied by a percentage related to its CO2 emissions.  The incentives are such that for EVs its 2% for this year and the next two, whereas for my current diesel its 26%.  The resulting amount is then taxed at whatever your top rate is, with your tax code adjusted so that this is automatically deducted from your monthly salary.  So for me thats going to be a difference of circa £220 pm, with additional savings on charging costs vs fuel.

 

 

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