yuddie 697 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, compo said: One thing I did notice recently in Glasgow was the amount of unused football pitches in and around the city which suggests to me young lads are not as keen to be footballers these days maybe it’s a lifestyle thing they all seem to want to go to university/college but we all know if your a good player you’re made financially I just don’t understand the youngsters of today . I know but the percentage of kids who actually turn pro and are 'made financially' compared to the percentage of kids who are eligible, through grades, scholarships etc, to go to uni is like night and day. How many pro clubs are there in Scotland? 20 odd? And 80% of those won't be offering more than a couple of grand a week. Edited November 8 by yuddie 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo 5,386 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 1 minute ago, yuddie said: I know but the percentage of kids who actually turn pro and are 'made financially' compared to the percentage of kids who are eligible, through grades, scholarships etc, to go to uni is like night and day. How many pro clubs are there in Scotland? 20 odd? And 80% of those won't be offering more than a couple of grand a week. Back in my day lads that went to Highbury got a first class football education but in case they didn’t make the grade they were give a job either in the city or they learned a trade like electrician or plumbing to fall back on I don’t know what happens to them today do we just discard them if so then that’s shameful. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuddie 697 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 6 minutes ago, compo said: Back in my day lads that went to Highbury got a first class football education but in case they didn’t make the grade they were give a job either in the city or they learned a trade like electrician or plumbing to fall back on I don’t know what happens to them today do we just discard them if so then that’s shameful. Aye SAF said in his interview that he served an apprenticeship whilst he was playing, a toolmaker iirc? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SykseyBear 127 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 24 minutes ago, alexscottislegend said: Ok but it's funny how Man City (and L'pool etc.) manage to produce talent like Foden and Lewis into their team despite signing ready-made players for millions; don't tell me there's no pressure there for success. Nothing funny about it, they are good solid stable sides, that's why they are able to blood kids and still be relatively successful. Liverpool got away with not winning a league title for 30 years. Man Utd 10 years. Arsenal more. These clubs might be massive but they don't have anywhere near the same pressure as us in terms of must win. They don't have to win. They are happy with just competing. With top 4. With the odd trophy every 5 years or so. We will never be like that. 3 hours ago, JohnMc said: Charlie Miller didn't come close to fulfilling his potential, he was genuinely one of the best players in the world when he was a schoolboy. Barry Ferguson did, but I doubt he would have if Advocaat hadn't taken over when he did and chose to build a side around him. Of the players you've mentioned above I suspect only Bailey Rice has a real chance of making it with us. The rest will get some games but I can't see them become first team regulars, I expect they'll move on when their contracts are up. Lowry still has a chance, but his inability to secure a starting berth in a poor Hearts side suggests to me he's still missing that something required to become a top professional. We hear the same platitudes about pathways and opportunities trotted out time and again, but I honestly wonder if we should bin our youth set up and simply focus on our first team. Indeed I'd go as far as to say all professional football clubs in this country should. Charlie is a family friend, i know exactly what happened with him at Rangers, i didn't say he fulfilled his potential. Lowry doesn't have a chance, he won't make it hear, he will never be good enough. He lacks things that cannot be coached on the training pitch. Worked out well for Falkirk i guess.....🙄 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,311 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 1 hour ago, SykseyBear said: Nothing funny about it, they are good solid stable sides, that's why they are able to blood kids and still be relatively successful. Liverpool got away with not winning a league title for 30 years. Man Utd 10 years. Arsenal more. These clubs might be massive but they don't have anywhere near the same pressure as us in terms of must win. They don't have to win. They are happy with just competing. With top 4. With the odd trophy every 5 years or so. We will never be like that. Charlie is a family friend, i know exactly what happened with him at Rangers, i didn't say he fulfilled his potential. Lowry doesn't have a chance, he won't make it hear, he will never be good enough. He lacks things that cannot be coached on the training pitch. Worked out well for Falkirk i guess.....🙄 Family friend or not he's hardly a poster boy for our youth set up or someone I'd be holding up as an example to our current young players. Are you really comparing Rangers to Falkirk? We've really only got Nathan Paterson to show for years of work and millions invested. Gilmour left the second he could, as did Mebude and Rory Wilson earning us very little in reality. More importantly we've really only got Leon King as a recognised first team squad player and he's what, fifth choice now? I've unhappily come to the conclusion that we'd be better off focusing our energy and money on finding players in the 18 to 21 age group. Bassey, Aribo, Kent, Morelos have provided far better value for us, I think Lewis Ferguson, Doig and Hickey could have done similar too. Hopefully Raskin will prove a good player for us and command a decent fee in the future. If we accept that we're now a stepping stone club, a tier below much wealthier leagues, then those are the kind of players we should focus on. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SykseyBear 127 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 3 hours ago, JohnMc said: Family friend or not he's hardly a poster boy for our youth set up or someone I'd be holding up as an example to our current young players. Are you really comparing Rangers to Falkirk? We've really only got Nathan Paterson to show for years of work and millions invested. Gilmour left the second he could, as did Mebude and Rory Wilson earning us very little in reality. More importantly we've really only got Leon King as a recognised first team squad player and he's what, fifth choice now? I've unhappily come to the conclusion that we'd be better off focusing our energy and money on finding players in the 18 to 21 age group. Bassey, Aribo, Kent, Morelos have provided far better value for us, I think Lewis Ferguson, Doig and Hickey could have done similar too. Hopefully Raskin will prove a good player for us and command a decent fee in the future. If we accept that we're now a stepping stone club, a tier below much wealthier leagues, then those are the kind of players we should focus on. Do we really? I suppose Scotland internationals Allan McGregor Robbie McCrorie Alan Hutton Charlie Adam Stephen Hughes Liam Kelly John Fleck And multi trophy winning Rangers players Steven Smith Ross McCormack Danny Wilson Chris Burke etc etc don't really count then?.......i could also list the ones who came through Murray Park and were stopped in their Rangers careers by numerous failed first team employees at the club....guys like Robert Snodgrass, Kenny McLean, Graeme Smith, Greg Taylor, Barry Robson, Lawrence Shankland, Lewis Ferguson, among so many others, then there's Billy Gilmour and those ones you mention too. Just because they didn't break through here, doesn't mean our Academy didn't or doesn't work. It works and it works very well. Our problem is integrating it with the first team. Using it properly. Said Academy clearly developed excellent young players, international footballers. It wasn't Murray Parks fault first team managers refused to give those kids a chance....that's a failing of the first team set up! What value did we get from Kent? £7m investment, top wages for 4 years only to walk out on us for nothing with barely a trophy to show for it. He was a monumental loss for the club. A perfect example of how NOT to operate! Charlie Miller is an example i have used for every single team i've coached and boys i've scouted for. He's proof the wee scheme boy can make it in the game and can make it in the game at a club the size of Rangers. We've been a stepping stone club since the turn of the millennium. That's exactly who we are. 👍 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,311 Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 (edited) 10 hours ago, SykseyBear said: Do we really? I suppose Scotland internationals Allan McGregor Robbie McCrorie Alan Hutton Charlie Adam Stephen Hughes Liam Kelly John Fleck And multi trophy winning Rangers players Steven Smith Ross McCormack Danny Wilson Chris Burke etc etc don't really count then?.......i could also list the ones who came through Murray Park and were stopped in their Rangers careers by numerous failed first team employees at the club....guys like Robert Snodgrass, Kenny McLean, Graeme Smith, Greg Taylor, Barry Robson, Lawrence Shankland, Lewis Ferguson, among so many others, then there's Billy Gilmour and those ones you mention too. Just because they didn't break through here, doesn't mean our Academy didn't or doesn't work. It works and it works very well. Our problem is integrating it with the first team. Using it properly. Said Academy clearly developed excellent young players, international footballers. It wasn't Murray Parks fault first team managers refused to give those kids a chance....that's a failing of the first team set up! What value did we get from Kent? £7m investment, top wages for 4 years only to walk out on us for nothing with barely a trophy to show for it. He was a monumental loss for the club. A perfect example of how NOT to operate! Charlie Miller is an example i have used for every single team i've coached and boys i've scouted for. He's proof the wee scheme boy can make it in the game and can make it in the game at a club the size of Rangers. We've been a stepping stone club since the turn of the millennium. That's exactly who we are. 👍 C'mon, why don't you include Ian Durrant then, how about Derek Johnstone or John Greig? I mean if you're counting players from 20 years ago why not just make it 50 years and we can close the discussion now? Or, we can talk about the here and now, where we actually are as a club and deal with reality? If they don't break through to our first team then really, what's the point? Listing players the club released as an example of how good our youth system is seems a self defeating argument. The fact that Greg Taylor is a first choice full back for Celtic is not the ringing endorsement for the Rangers 'Academy' that you seem to think it is. Look, I'll be delighted if McCausland, Rice and King, or any of our current youths, go on and establish themselves as first team regulars, I'll gladly recant my criticism. I'm sceptical, but we'll see. Ryan Kent played 140 games for Rangers, that's a decent return for any player who was 19 when they joined us. Did we overpay for him, probably, and should we have sold him a couple of seasons ago, definitely. Same with Morelos and Kamara. But all 3 of those players contributed more to our first team than every Academy player put together over the last 5 seasons. Let Motherwell or Hibs or Charlton or whoever develop them into first team players, then we should sign them young, offer them the chance to play in front of 50,000, European football, the chance of medals and fame before moving to a wealthier club in a wealthier league. From the outside that looks to be a much better 'business model' for the club. It's interesting that Celtic had a short period where they developed McGregor, Forrest, Christie and Tierney, successfully integrating them into their first team. The period coincided with us being out of the league. Without us the challenge to win the SPFL was much easier, Celtic could afford to drop points, take some chances on youth and know it wouldn't really matter come title time. Since our return they've not developed anyone of note. I don't think that's coincidence. I've been having this same conversation on here for a long time. I'd love Rangers to be able to spot, nurture and produce our own players, but unfortunately all the available evidence says we haven't and can't. Edited November 9 by JohnMc 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SykseyBear 127 Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 I've went 8 hours ago, JohnMc said: C'mon, why don't you include Ian Durrant then, how about Derek Johnstone or John Greig? I mean if you're counting players from 20 years ago why not just make it 50 years and we can close the discussion now? Or, we can talk about the here and now, where we actually are as a club and deal with reality? If they don't break through to our first team then really, what's the point? Listing players the club released as an example of how good our youth system is seems a self defeating argument. The fact that Greg Taylor is a first choice full back for Celtic is not the ringing endorsement for the Rangers 'Academy' that you seem to think it is. Look, I'll be delighted if McCausland, Rice and King, or any of our current youths, go on and establish themselves as first team regulars, I'll gladly recant my criticism. I'm sceptical, but we'll see. Ryan Kent played 140 games for Rangers, that's a decent return for any player who was 19 when they joined us. Did we overpay for him, probably, and should we have sold him a couple of seasons ago, definitely. Same with Morelos and Kamara. But all 3 of those players contributed more to our first team than every Academy player put together over the last 5 seasons. Let Motherwell or Hibs or Charlton or whoever develop them into first team players, then we should sign them young, offer them the chance to play in front of 50,000, European football, the chance of medals and fame before moving to a wealthier club in a wealthier league. From the outside that looks to be a much better 'business model' for the club. It's interesting that Celtic had a short period where they developed McGregor, Forrest, Christie and Tierney, successfully integrating them into their first team. The period coincided with us being out of the league. Without us the challenge to win the SPFL was much easier, Celtic could afford to drop points, take some chances on youth and know it wouldn't really matter come title time. Since our return they've not developed anyone of note. I don't think that's coincidence. I've been having this same conversation on here for a long time. I'd love Rangers to be able to spot, nurture and produce our own players, but unfortunately all the available evidence says we haven't and can't. Why would we add them? Murray Park wasn't around then. What is wrong with you? (Rhetorical, please don't answer) Who said they can't? Failed managers? Managers who showed they don't know what they are doing? Who we talking about and when? (Rhetorical, please don't answer) They won't, none of them will and i've told you all why earlier in here or in another thread. Our club isn't stable enough and our team isn't strong enough to introduce kids long term into the team. 140 games of pure mediocre rubbish and failure. You could count on one hand the good games he had. He was a complete waste of money. He was utter garbage. Pointless talking about Academy players and what they have and haven't contributed over the last 5 years, or even 10 years. For the reasons i stated before. Utterly pointless. We can't afford Motherwell or Hibernians best players any more. The days of us cherry picking first team players from within Scotland to contribute to winning trophies are over. Touching on Celtic, you actually just proved my point! Cheers. Exactly what i've said all along! God knows what evidence you are looking at, i'm watching a completely different game. No more John, i'm bored of it now, let's just enjoy the game tonight pal, please. 🍻 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,311 Posted November 10 Share Posted November 10 Yeah, I think I can agree that we're watching completely different games. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuddie 697 Posted November 11 Share Posted November 11 (edited) Just on scottish talent and young players, I'm following the scores and Josh Campbell has scored for hibs again - he'll be 24 at the end of the season...would you start a dialogue? I get Lewis Ferguson vibes with him tbh. And I'd have taken him btw. What you reckon? Cheers. Edited November 11 by yuddie 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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