Frankie 8,157 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 There is nothing wrong with pushing our identity as a proud British club from Scotland. If you don't subscribe to that background that's perfectly fine - no-one makes you do so, but if the club and some fans want to remember our traditions and background then I'm astounded anyone wants to declare that unsuitable. I couldn't care less about Protestantism, the monarchy or the Union. I also see myself as Scottish before being British. But I respect the fact the club I chose to support when I was a wee boy (because of my favourite colour blue) does have such aspects in in it's history. I enjoy little nuances such as the Queen's dressing room portraits, the Loving Cup ceremony and the fact patriotic fans from far flung places still relate to the Union flag and combine their love of their country with their love of Rangers. It provides character and originality to our club in Scotland. It makes us one of the most followed clubs in the country. Plenty people still identify with this background. That background and heritage doesn't need to filed away in a drawer because it may not be as valid for all nowadays. Rangers FC means different things to different people. Nowadays we're one of the most cosmopolitan clubs in world football and welcome all to partake in it. That should celebrated along with being proud of our history. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAndPassion 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Surely the fans should push a clubs identity, not the club? After all, the fans ARE the club! When has anyone ever asked if the fans enjoy the prematch music, etc? I'd much rather hear a good mix of old and new football songs than the friggin' dambusters, rule britannia, and other such irrelevant nonsense! Just my opinion, of course 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I can see your point Frankie, but you have to admit our history is blighted by sectarianism. To prove that we are not just paying lip service to Government and UEFA legislation, I think we have to be careful and almost portray a whiter than white front. It may stick in the craw with some, but when you do the crime you eventually have to do the time: this is our penance. We can celebrate some of our history, but maybe we should do it a bit more quietly for a while. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Surely the fans should push a clubs identity, not the club? After all, the fans ARE the club! When has anyone ever asked if the fans enjoy the prematch music, etc? I'd much rather hear a good mix of old and new football songs than the friggin' dambusters, rule britannia, and other such irrelevant nonsense! Just my opinion, of course I agree with this. A lot of this traditional stuff leaves me cold and I'm no fan of tradition for tradition's sake. Our football has mostly moved with the times, why can't the club? 2-3-5 formation was a tradition abondoned very easily, as were wooden terraces. Nothing is sacrosanct. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAndPassion 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I can see your point Frankie, but you have to admit our history is blighted by sectarianism. To prove that we are not just paying lip service to Government and UEFA legislation, I think we have to be careful and almost portray a whiter than white front. totally agree ... and you are right, it does stick in the throat when you look at what those idiots across the city can get away with with their whole 'irish roots' pish, but this isn't about them, it's about us getting our own house in order, and to do that we need to do MORE than what is expected of us, whilst at the same time standing our ground on the ridiculous - it's a fine line! Which of course is why i have always been so disappointed with the whole Big Jock Knew crap ... we really have to rise above this! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyk 158 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I love our scottish and british identity and most of our history and tradition, nothing better than seeing Ibrox full of saltires and union flags IMO. Some of the stuff needs cut out still of course it does but most of it has IMO, we are moving in the right direction and you can't 'change' people overnight. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I can see your point Frankie, but you have to admit our history is blighted by sectarianism. To prove that we are not just paying lip service to Government and UEFA legislation, I think we have to be careful and almost portray a whiter than white front. i dont think our history is blighted by sectarianism, but then i dont really think sectarianism is an actual problem. but where i disagree most fundamentally is that we should bend over backwards to portray ourselves as anything to anyone - no one likes us? we dont care. to bow down in some grandoise act of morality to the government, the media & UEFA is to bow down before institutions that are at least as rotten to the core as we are. if everyone wants to make people singing bad songs at each other some massive social problem, let them. now, i know you think that a world in which we only sang football songs, just supported our team and its worthwhile traditions (sportsmanship etc) - left all the religious & political baggage at the door - is the best way forward for our club. but the problem is that as things stand this is not the majority view. people are quite happy to be rid of sectarianism and keep the old songs & traditions they (for whatever reasons incomprehensible to you) enjoy. call your view the liberal secular view, call theirs the conservative unionist view. whilst both sides are fine under the law, to legislate so as to bring the other about will just cause resentment. you might think your view will inevitabley prevail because its better, but you cant start ascribing bad motives to people who only wish to comply and no more as there are many very good reasons. we dont need more justification than we like the sound to sing the sash - no matter how uncouth, oldfashioned or hypocritical people might view it. i say "we", but i tend not to like that side of things myself, but i dont think of myself as dinstict from it either. i just dont care. anyway, just my tuppence - whilst your twos view may be the best way forward, most people dont want it, so you have to make the decision whether you think we should try and force people into your way of thinking, or just let them get there inevitably come round. i said to frankie that i think it would be worthwhile doing a contrasting perspectives on the Way Forward for Rangers Article with a couple of people from here like yourself outlining what they think is important when going forward (sound business, promoting a secular approach, say) and we can contrast and compare with other views. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Good balanced post - which I don't have time to reply to - sorry. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 no worries. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAndPassion 0 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Good last paragraph, bmck One of my problems is that any 'way forward' always seems to represent a particular viewpoint, and i'm not convinced that this is the one and only viewpoint out there!! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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