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Got to say that puts me in a soap box mood.


.... if you're going to spend time on here, then you have a great opportunity to gain something from it. You could use this enjoyable time to learn to be a fast, accurate touch typist; increase your English writing; and also improve your communication skills and ability to make a cohesive and compelling argument.


In fact everyone on here can do this, and I for one don't miss the opportunity. In fact, I (maybe delusionally) justify spending far too much time on here by convincing myself that I'm practicing my writing and communication skills: which becomes useful when I have to do it for real.


Most decently paid jobs these days, require the use of computer and the writing of specs, reports and many, many emails. Learning to be a fast touch typist will make this far easier and faster; learning good English will mean that your reports will carry more respect; and learning good communication means that you'll be able to work more effectively with your colleagues and give you more chance of moving up the ladder.


Most people on forums use the excuse that they are in a hurry, but why not just spend the same time to write less but with higher quality? It will be more beneficial to you in the long run.


Most wisdom says that if you practice sloppily at anything then you will likely be sloppy at it for real. If you practice guitar sloppily you'll be a sloppy guitarist; if you practice driving sloppily then you'll have trouble passing your test and never be a good driver; if you practice football sloppily then you won't be one of the better players etc.


And somehow youngsters seem to think it's cool to be sloppy.


However, do you think it's cool if Rangers play sloppy? Would you want your money back if a band played in a sloppy way? Would be impressed if your favourite racing driver crashed while driving with one hand and not looking in his mirrors? Would you be happy to invest your money in a bank that sends you letters with poor writing skills? Or buy a newspaper with terrible spelling?


You may not think spelling is that important, but look at the embarrassment that Celtc [sic] fans had when they couldn't spell their team's name.


There's even less and less excuses to write badly with todays technology. I'm using Firefox which checks my spelling as I write. Not only does it pick up my typos, but when I spell a word incorrectly, I try to learn from the spell checker so that I don't do it again. This continuously improves my spelling vocabulary - and I'm in my late 30's and so I don't have an exam to worry about!


As for touch typing there's plenty of free software around to help you. I've typed for years at about 50 words a minute - but make lots of mistakes (which I correct them immediately as I'm looking at the screen and not the keyboard). However, on secondment I was sitting next to a shit-hot programmer who could type at about 100 words a minute with few mistakes. He put me to shame and I'm using some guitar wisdom I've learned - to slow down and cut out the mistakes so that I can then eventually increase my speed to a higher level. I'm trying not to practice sloppily anymore.


If you write with good English, and good thinking, you'll be more likely to be put on the main site for all the world to see. Then when you make mistakes, people know it's just a typo or a one off. When you do the same mistakes all the time, people just assume you don't know any better.


Fraser, you're 17 now, an adult, but your writing makes you look much younger than that. Why not make the effort, gain more respect, more kudos, and have a much better chance of passing your English exam - as well as getting your opinions published?


Actually, many of your opinions have matured immensely over the last year or two, so why not allow your writing skills to catch up?


earlier on in the cup final thread calscot posted this. we deleted it because we thought it was a bit preachy - young fraser doesnt come on here to be brow bashed. but we thought it was a good topic for debate, and we know frasers a big boy and can answer for himself. personally i think frasers no dullard & knows what he is talking about. i dont think his use of english is as bad as calscot makes out - he is no budding poet laureate but i have had plenty of conversations with him on here and on MSN and he has always made himself understood.


i tend to disagree with the calscot on a few points - i love english, study it & generally wonder at it but the truth is thats its been changing and growing to keep itself relevant. its flexibility has made it prevail over the more precise writing of latin. as far as im concerned if you have made yourself understood, language has done its job. but calscots right in that there are plenty of situations in life that demand a more refined use of words - even if its just speaking more politely, clearly and confidently than you normally would do to police to prevent them searching you or whatever. basically if you want to write something, or say something, and have people think you know what you are talking about, you have to have a decent command of language. this even wolrks most of the time if you dont actually know what your talking about which is usually the case with me.


its boring hearing people say exams are So Much Easier today though. every single year people bust their ass trying to get good marks only to have petty people who rather kids have a strange draconian education and learn nothing but latin and grammar (and be caned for every misdeed) tell them its not good enough. the people who mostly complain about kids use of language nowadays are happy in an environment that speaking politely and perspicuously is the norm - most people, or at least a lot of people, dont have that. its a quaint condescending middle class notion that in an ideal world everyone would be educated & eloquent. if that were true they would have no-one to make the shit they buy at the lowest price out of asda. or fix their heating when its on the blink, or make the buses that alloow them to marvel at their own planet saving endeavours as they head into work in the morning.


so, yeah, a good command of english is a great thing to have in life. but then its strictly subordinate to things like happiness, love & life and that sort of thing. so anyway, if anyone can be bothered debating this, calscots post is as good an introduction as i can think of.


and sloppy is cool. people who are never sloppy are anally retentive, and far too boring to be around. sloppy has its place - being a machine as ideal is to turn the metaphor far too far around. i can touch type a 100 words a minute, and am a programmer, but im none the better for it as a person. but if people want to be respected by educated people and are at all interested in making decent money in adulthood, they have to be able to use english well.


i reckon fraserll prove him wrong with his next match preview :)

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Must say, I had completely forgotten Fraser was 17 now. No offense to the lad but the way he goes on around here he makes it very easy to make sure he still looks 15.


I'm with Calscot, in fairness. On a place like this, I expect a high level of communication from myself, so I'd expect it from those around me and for the most part, I get it. I don't come on here to read 'am pure excited a just dun a bouncy in ma room'.


Must stress, I'm trying not to single Fraser out here. I'd be the same with anyone else who had a thing for using 'text speak' or whatever you want to call it.


So aye, Fraser, get it sorted.



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I think this is a bit unfair. For all everyone is saying 'oh I'm trying nt to single Fraser out' every time you type that, that's what you're doing. He isn't being offensive or rude. What next - a lecture on howswearing in posts is the sign of a limited vocabulary. Fuck that!!!

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i agree with juffrey. honestly, we happily use english now that would have been thoroughly frowned upon by the same sort of people in previous days. "kids these days" stuff is boring. fraser doesnt go on a rant about what he perceives as calscots flaws, but its not right to think we would protect him by not letting him hear it. people have these views, and i do think calscot is actually trying to encourage him and english can be important in life.

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What does Fraser find difficult about typing 'I' instead of 'a'? It's basic English. Sure we all make spelling errors, grammatical errors and other stuff to but I reckon he's just lazy with it. In saying that, he's young and is just following a trend that other youngsters do when typing an email, text or a post in the internet.


But I'll say this, spoke proper England Fraser fur fux sake.

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^ thats ten characters saved in the first line. if you could type like that quickly, with a little practice, you will be saving hundreds of characters a minute and still making yourself perfectly well understood. :) :cheers: :brick::thup:

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The question is a good one and has a few answers - none of them definatly correct.


For a start, Barry is correct, as long as your understood then its done its job but then people are criticised for using slang and sounding like a tink. That is a seperate debate as to whether people are being lazy with there words or are unedcuated enough to use the language. But there are plenty of places throughout the UK who have there own actually slang which are from accent languager - such as doric. People from Peterhead for example talk totally different from Aberdonians who are only 28 miles away.


However then there is the use of it on a day to day business sense. Whether it is right or wrong to speak 'proper' english again is another debate, but to make a good impression you are expected to speak the proper language. I personally tend to talk as best english as i can with working matters but i become far more relaxed when out with my friends etc.


That moves us on to the likes of posting in here. This forum is a great example of people not being lazy and using such unformal short hand like people do in text messages. However the majority of us are still not exactly lecturer standards and make quite a few grammer errors - Im certainly guilty of this as i tend to type quiet fast on here and not re-check my post.


Fraser types 'a' instead of 'i'. Yes this is quite annoying but also funny but I bet nearly all of you use 'a' instead of 'I' when pronouncing it during a sentance. This is where the majority of the population can still be lazy. For eg when we say "I'll meet you at the bus stop" there are so many people who pronouce it as "Al meet you at the bus stop". Its just us Scots talk - we pronounce things very fast and skip words - it doesnt mean we dont know the proper language.


The last 6 months has seen me totally slow my speech down when at work. Im the only Brit in the building and they have enough problem understanding my accent without me being lazy with words - and at the end of it, its me who looks more stupid.


But Fraser, please use 'I' instead of 'a' to prevent any further out of school lectures. :thup:

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PS - Just want to add where most of us on here do make the odd error and are by no means literature experts, it has to be said we are lucky as we do have a couple of posters who's standard of the English language is at an excellent level.


Id say the learning of advanced languages is a hobby but a great asset to have and gets you by in many things. When one uses the brain in such way it is by far more self satisfying.


I wish my own knowledge of it was greater, my sister is often explaining certain words to me she has used in sentances and at the same time slagging me as if didnt go to school, but then she has a degree in the subject and I dont.

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I make an effort not to type how I talk so why can't others?


Barry, I sometimes find it tricky understanding all this text talk. I had to read what Beattie wrote three times before I completely understood it but like I said earlier, it's obvious that Fraser is used to it as he'll use it to send texts and post comments on Bebo. It's 2nd nature to him but not to us.

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